Pt/Pd Film Toner

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by Mustafa Umut Sarac, Sep 28, 2010.

  1. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    I want to ask that is there such a thing like platin or palladium toner for film ?
    If such a toner exist , does it fully replace silver with pd.
    I think I need such a toner and if it does not exist , how do you formulate it ?

    I am thinking to build a anamorphic pinhole camera and tone the 6x17 cms bw positives.

    Thank you ,

    Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Istanbul
     
  2. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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  3. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Taken from the above link. This is for prints. How do you formulate it for Plus X Positve 120 ?

    THE PRACTICE OF PLATINUM TONING
    The effects obtainable with platinum toning do seem to harmonize especially well with a matte surface, although platinum toning can be used with albumen and other kinds of glossy paper. The main technical difference between gold and platinum toning is that gold toning goes on best in an alkaline environment, while platinum toning requires a neutral or acidic condition. One difficulty in platinum toning is the tendency to produce yellowish highlights if the toning is carried on too long, or if the solution is too strong or too acidic. Another is the tendency of any impurities such as silver nitrate or sodium thiosulfate to rob the toning bath of its activity by altering the platinum to an irreducible condition. For this reason prints to be toned in a platinum toner must be well washed and treated in a 5% sodium chloride solution for 2 minutes and then washed again for 5 minutes in running water before being placed in the toning solution. Still another precaution to be observed is to wash the prints well after toning, to be sure that none of the acidic platinum toner is carried into the fixing bath.

    A useful platinum toning formula is as follows:

    Potassium chloroplatinite, 1% sol 50 ml
    Citric acid 4 g
    Water 750 ml
     
  4. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    I expect that it will work quite similarly for film, the chemistry will be similar if not identical. The rate of toning may be different due to the substrate, but I don't imagine that being a huge issue.

    By the way, I did halochrome toning on some negs and it worked almost the exact same way that it does with prints.
     
  5. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Thank you Keith.
     
  6. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Potassium chloroplatinite

    I looked to Bostick Sullivan and cost 40 dollar per gram. It says add 5 ml water to 1 gram.
    Above formula says Potassium chloroplatinite, 1% sol 50 ml
    What is the meaning of this ? How much solution I can prepare with 1 gram and how many 6 x 17 cms positive bw tri x does it tone ?
     
  7. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    You can get the solutions ready to go...

    http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/cart/product.php?productid=561&cat=0&page=1

    No clue how much toning you can do, my guess is that it'll last quite a while. Normally you lose a lot of fluid into the paper and the coatign brush or rod etc. when you do Pt prints. But for film, your losses should be very small.

    But again... why? It's going to be a rather pricey endeavour. Why not Se tone? What do you expect Pt to do for your negs?
     
  8. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    I will tone positives and I want them to be platin look. And loss is substantialy less. Faraway cheaper than the paper. And there is no such thing like platin negative or positive film. If you sell film , it is stronger than paper you can always contact print , roll and send with ups .
    Transparent medium , different light sources will make the viewing more exciting.
    As I said I will build a 6x17 cms anamorphic pinhole camera and it is sometimes excellent.
     
  9. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    Ok well you really might consider the halochrome then.... that gives you the metallic glow that I guess you are after. You can tone both ways with the same kit: either black objects go silver or white objects go silver, you decide which you want. On film you get very cool reflective images with the effects depending quite a lot on the light and viewing angle, kind of vaguely reminiscent of a hologram. On paper it is not quite so dramatic.
     
  10. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    I first here about halochrome from you. Sounds very interesting. I will google . Is it all about film or about print ? I think its about film otherwise you point it.
     
  11. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    Most people do halochrome toning on prints, but you can use it on a traditionally-developed (i.e. not pyro, not chromogenic) b&w neg or positive too. I did it, and I wish I could show you something, but I am certain that it really won't scan well.

    Halochrome, if you buy it, is kinda pricey. You wind up using a lot of it just trying to get a few toned prints. For negs it is much less expensive- you can treat film with very small volumes.

    Incidentally, I understand that there is a toning book with the halochrome formula in it, which I haven't seen but have read about. I think it is "The Photographer's Toning Book" by Tim Rudman. Google and see. Anyway I am thinking that you could take the halochrome recipe and adapt it to whatever you want. I have had some stray thoughts on this and just haven't had time to follow through.
     
  12. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Keith ,

    I am not after metallic glow but some additional tone which will make positives more enjoyable. Bostick platin , I cant afford it this winter time. May be palladium helps a little bit. And honestly I love palladium more. I looked to Bostick and Sullivan , % 15 , 25 cc palladium solution cost 59 dollars.
    %20 , 10 ml platin costs 80 dollars. I think I need %15 10 ml palladium solution . It might cost less than 25 dollars. Do your 1856 formula works with palladium.
    Who sells 10 ml palladium ?

    Umut
     
  13. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    I'd say just check directly with bostick and/or photographer's formulary, they can probably hook you up. This isn't a good time to take up an interest in toning with precious industrial metals, though! Or... maybe I'm wrong... if you think about it, Pt and Pd are very important in the battery industry, so their prices will probably not be going down. The gold price is still doing irrational things despite not having much industrial worth, so I have been waiting for people to notice that Pt is the more sensible long term position and start to transfer investments over to the precious catalyst metals. Anyway, enough about commodities prices :wink: