Pulling Ilford HP5 Plus 400 ISO film to 12 ISO. Possible?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Niebylsamwlesie, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. Niebylsamwlesie

    Niebylsamwlesie Member

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    Hi
    By mistake I exposed Ilford HP5 Plus 400 as ISO 12 :-(

    Do you have any idea how to rescue that film? It means how develop it.

    greetings

    JW
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2012
  2. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    You might try Perceptol stock. The time for EI 200 is 11 mins. You've managed 4 stops less than 200 so you might try, say 30% less than 11 mins

    I'd cut off the first few negs and develop them as above and then go from there.

    Just curiosity on my part but how did you manage to dial in 5 stops less than the box speed?

    pentaxuser
     
  3. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    Yeah I've pulled film more than that, you just need to settle on a time and dilution, which means a test roll.
     
  4. rawhead

    rawhead Member

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    If it's critical stuff, shoot a different roll at that rate, test on that.
     
  5. NB23

    NB23 Member

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    Why not go Rodinal or HC110 at a 1:100 dilution and let it stand for 30 minutes? IMO, this is a minimum risk dilution/time.
     
  6. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

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    Just develop it about 30%-50% less than you usually do and get ready for a dense negative. You will have some grain but with multicontrast paper it should print fine.

    I have overexposed Tri-X by 9 stops (f/2 @ 1/30th in broad daylight) and still got pretty crunchy, but still recognizable, negative.
     
  7. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    As you know you can't alter the exposure already given to the negatives during the development stage. You will find when you print these negatives it will be similar to printing very underexposed negatives. The typical under exposed negative, when printed so the middle values are correct, will have no blacks. Likewise when printing your overexposed negatives for a correct middle value there will be no whites. The whites will be gray. Similarly if you print the whites as white, they middle values will be way too light.
     
  8. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    The same way you can't really push film to any great degree, you can't pull it to any great degree. If you simply underdevelop a lot you will lose too much contrast. A speed decreasing developer might give you about a stop less speed, but I would not use Perceptol to do this because you're going to have a grainy negative in any case, and Perceptol will just make it mushy grain.

    Whatever developer you use, you might try reversing the procedures we normally when we try to maximize speed and reduce contrast. Dilution of the developer and intermittent agitation with a longer development time helps maximize speed for a given contrast level. So reversing this logic, you might consider a more concentrated dilution, with a shorter development time and continuous agitation. Testing would be required to find the right time so if this roll is really important do some testing on spare rolls first.

    In any case you'll still end up with a dense negative. The goal here is to try to get fairly normal contrast, and hopefully highlight detail assuming the highlights were not exposed beyond the scale of the film.
     
  9. Huub

    Huub Member

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    A couple of years ago i exposed a couple of sheets of HP5+, while my meter was still set to the 25 iso needed for the P55n in used in the previous shoot. After considering the alternatives - the drop in contrast because of a reduced development or a dense negative - i decided on a 10% shorter development time and accept the dense negative. It took some effort to print them, but i was still able to get decent results, with very good shadow detail indeed.
     
  10. Niebylsamwlesie

    Niebylsamwlesie Member

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    I forgot to mention that it was film Ilford film 13x18cm in my LF camera. I just swapped cassettes by mistake. That's all
     
  11. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    You could develop the film normally as you usually do and then use a reducer to correct the density. This has the advantage that you can see what you are doing during the reduction and stop at any time.
     
  12. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

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    What's a reducer? And you say you can see what you're doing? Is this after you use stop bath? Please educate me :smile:


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  13. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    A reducer is used to remove silver from a negative or print. For an over exposed negative you need a cutting reducer like Farmer's Reducer. After developing and fixing the negative wash it briefly and then immerse it in Farmer's reducer. The formula is readily available on many websites and consists of potassium ferricyanide and sodium thiosulfate. Watch the negative carefully to check when the density is approaching the desired level. Remove the negative from the bath. Rewash the negative for your usual time to remove any thiosulfate from the reducing bath. It is best to stop just before the negative reaches the desired density as reduction continues for a brief period during washing. This can all be done in room light.

    Kodak used to supply this reducer in small foil pouches for single use. An older photo store might still have it. You can buy the reducer ready to be mixed from Photographer's Formulary. You want their Reducer #1. This makes more stock solution than you need but it is handy to have and works on prints as well.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2012
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  15. Ken Nadvornick

    Ken Nadvornick Subscriber

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    This may be the most useful advice of all. You can test over and over again until you get exactly the results you want before processing the real negatives with absolutely no surprises.

    Ken
     
  16. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

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    Oh wow! That's awesome!!

    How bad is the grain after that? (Obviously it fluctuates depending on amount of adjustment, but generally, like 25% more grain? 60%? Etc).

    Thanks!


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  17. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

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    Oh and is there an un-reducer? That somehow densifies under exposed images?


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  18. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Yes they are called intensifiers. There is one catch you cannot add shadow detail where none exists in the original negative. However they allow you to get a good print without resorting to a higher contrast paper or filtration.
     
  19. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    The grain is reduced from what was in the original negative.

    If the negative has been dried it should be soaked in water for a few miutes before starting the reuction process to prevent uneven reduction.

    I would suggest that you practice a few times with scrap negatives until you get familiar with the reduction process.

    Before the invention of the light meter both reducers and intensifiers were retinely used by photographers since films were often undeer or over exposed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2012
  20. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

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    Hmm, sometimes contrast can look nice so man wish I knew about this... Yesterday... Hey can you do this step after everything is dry? (I hope you say no, doing individual cut images of 120 will be a HUGE pain....especially to dry properly...).


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  21. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

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    Sorry, last question... Is the acutince (sp?) also increased? (Made sharper).


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  22. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Reduction is not something that you want to do to lessen grain or improve acutance. It's purpose is to salvage negatives that have been improperly exposed or developed. I doubt that it would improve acutance.

    There are 3 types of reducers.

    o Cutting or sub-proportional
    o Proportional
    o Super-proportional

    Each addresses a different problem. Their use is usually the subject of an entire chapter in such books as Ansel Adams, The Negative. Depending on whether the ferricyanide and thiosulfate are mixed together or used seperately Farmer's Reducer can be either a cutting reducer or a proportional one. When mixed together the reducer lasts for only an hour or so and cannot be saved.
     
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  23. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

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    Thanks, I'll have to read up on it more, the change in terms over the ages is what often gets me confused or stuck when reading one thing, then another, but this is certainly a stepping point. I Hope this can help the OP as well.


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  24. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    Hey Stone the other interesting thing about using a reducer is that the effect is reversible. If you go to far you can redevelop the silver and try again, as long as you haven't put it through the fix again.

    As Gerold says this is basically a rescue technique for film.

    For prints though it can be used creatively and selectively instead of dodging in many cases.
     
  25. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Inactive

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    Really??? That's crazy, I really need to learn more, amazing, thanks for the tidbit.


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  26. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    The recommended version of Farmer's Reducer for over-exposure, that is cutting or sub-proportional, cannot be reversed as the thiosulfate in it removes the excess silver. This why the reducer should be adjusted to work slowly so as not to reduce the negative too much. This is accomplished by changing the amount of ferricyanide. The density of the negative must be checked periodically during the process.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2012