Purple tinted Tri-X 400 (120) negatives

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Tom Kershaw, Dec 26, 2009.

  1. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

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    How long should one wash for to reduce the purple tint of Tri-X negatives? (processed for the first time for two or so years). TMY-2 processed through my Jobo system (one shot) and given 10 minutes wash afterwards comes out of the water with no discernible purple stain. However the roll of Tri-X processed earlier today (Paterson Super System 4) shows a very noticeable purple stain, sometimes associated with insufficient fixing and / or washing, however I used times as follows:

    4 minutes pre-soak
    10 minutes Kodak XTOL replenished at 20ºC (for E.I. 1600)
    1 minute stop bath
    4 minutes fix (1+4 Champion Amfix, probably mixed around a month ago and used on less than 10 films, - haven't checked notes)
    5 minutes wash - 24ºC, fast rate (noticed film still has purple tint)
    [mixed up fresh fix]
    2 minutes in fresh fix
    5 minutes wash - 24ºC, fast rate (purple tint still there but probably less)

    Would a Sodium Carbonate clearing bath between two washes reduce the stain?

    Tom
     
  2. Dennis Vandal

    Dennis Vandal Member

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    Hi Tom- That's an old problem that has plagued Kodak's T-structure b&w films since the beginning. It has no effect on anything in the darkroom but nobody's ever comfortable with it either....which means that EK should have done something about it way back when but didn't. The color cast is very easily removed with a quick rinse in Permawash. You'll see the equivalent of .5 magenta doing down the drain.
     
  3. trexx

    trexx Member

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  4. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    Tom

    Split the two fixes into 3 minutes each. Reduce the in-between wash to just a minute or two (you don't need more). Extend the final wash to 10 minutes but precede it with a 2 minute hypo-clearing bath and the purple tint will be gone. I have none in my workflow (nor do I do a pre-soak).
     
  5. Dave Dawson

    Dave Dawson Member

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    Solution....Use Ilford HP5:D

    Cheers Dave
     
  6. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Let me clarify something.

    Kodak support contains carbon microparticles. These serve two purposes. One is anti-light piping and the other is antistatic. Both of these aid in getting sharper defect free photos. That causes a mild gray blue discoloration to most Kodak estar type supports.

    IDK if this film is on an Estar type support, but that is likely the reason for some of the coloration if it is. This coloration is harmless and the particles are too fine to affect the image quality.

    PE
     
  7. Colin Corneau

    Colin Corneau Subscriber

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    Use a hypo clearing agent, which will go a long way to solving this. It will also have the added bonus of helping with the wash.
     
  8. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

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    Does this suggest that Kodak TMY-2 is somehow less prone to purple tinting compared to Tri-X, or rather that my Jobo process is more effective at removing the purple dye? (no HCA used).

    Tom
     
  9. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

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    All my Tri-X 35mm and MF negatives are purple. If I don't mercilessly fix and wash my TMY/TMX 35mm, it will come out (probably harmless) pink. The few TMY medium format negatives I have are pretty much clear.
     
  10. Philippe-Georges

    Philippe-Georges Member

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    I have the same colour tint, but experienced no problem whit it, unless it is influencing the colour-filtering while printing on VC paper, this I do not know for sure.
    But, this might be because I process Tri-X 400 in Pyrocat-HD and the warm-brown staining of the emulsion is somewhat compensating the rather ‘cold’ magenta tint on the back side, who knows?
    What stroke me was, when fixing in an acidic fixer, the colour is almost gone, but as I develop in Pyro, I do use an alkalic fixer...
    But, again, I do not care, the results with Tri-X 400/120 are superb, well done Kodak and Sandy King!

    Philippe

    P.S. this is how I process Tri-X 400 (if you are interested) :
    All is done at 20°C +/-2°, pre wet and developing is strictly at 20°C, in tank on SS reels.
    Pre wet : for the time needed to mix the developer...
    Develop : Pyrocat-HD 1:1:100 for 15 min. Agitation : two inversions each 60 sec.
    Stop : water rinse, twice for 30 sec.
    Fixing : two bath, FUJI Unlec 1+4 for 2 min. each.
    Short rinse for 30 sec. twice.
    KHCA for 2 min.
    Final wash in running water for 5 min.
    ADOX Adostab, mixed according the labelled instructions, for 2 min.
    Dry at room temp., over night, in a cabinet (to protect against dust).
     
  11. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    The constant agitation helps to remove the dye, but remember what PE said. There is no harm in the dye anyway. If you want to get rid of it, use HCA and wash longer.
     
  12. JessicaDittmer

    JessicaDittmer Member

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    glad to find this thread, had a roll of tri-x looking a slight purple last night but scanned just fine-wanted to double check it wasn't a problem. thanks everyone who shares their knowledge here! great forum!
     
  13. brian steinberger

    brian steinberger Member

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    +1

    Really though, Tri-x is a great film. I recommend no pre-soak, rinse for a minute or so after a fix for 5 minutes, then hypo clear 2 minutes and a 10 minute wash. You'll be good to go.
     
  14. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    simply put :the longer you processing wet time (regardless in what)the more of the harmless purple anti-halation dye will wash out. however,a few steps will certainly grt rid of it:
    1. a 10-minute hypoclearing bath.
    two-bath fixing, followed by hca and a 10-minute wash.
    3. onehour-exposure to uv(sunor face tanning unit, buti have never tested this!)





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