Pushing FP4 in ID-11?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by cluttered, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. cluttered

    cluttered Member

    Messages:
    123
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Location:
    Adelaide, Au
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Turns out that I currently have a surplus of both Ilford FP4+ and ID-11 (someone I know had too much of both, etc etc). Just for the fun of it, I'm going to try to see how far I can push FP4 and develop it in ID-11. I'm aware that this combination is not ideal; I'd normally use HP5 or Delta 3200 with DD-X, but this is just an experiment.

    Ilford's documentation doesn't cover pushing FP4 past ISO 200 (with ID-11 that is), nor does the Massive Dev Chart. I'm thinking of starting with ISO 800 developed for about 20 minutes with stock ID-11. Is this a good starting point? Or is this just a complete waste of time?
     
  2. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

    Messages:
    7,596
    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    No it's not a waste of time, even if you don't get a workable picture you'll learn something about the combo.
     
  3. Aron

    Aron Member

    Messages:
    262
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Location:
    Hungary
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    By all means, try it, even if this is a 3-stop push with a film that will easily build contrast if you ask it to. I'd rather push in 1+1 ID-11, than stock.
     
  4. cluttered

    cluttered Member

    Messages:
    123
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Location:
    Adelaide, Au
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Why is that?
     
  5. Aron

    Aron Member

    Messages:
    262
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Location:
    Hungary
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Grain will look slightly sharper and most importantly, because of using a developer diluted will increase the developing time, so your shadows will have a slightly better chance of gaining some density.
     
  6. brian steinberger

    brian steinberger Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    One nice thing about pushing is undiluted ID-11 is a less amount of development time. Dilute 1:1 and your development time is going to get ridiculously long. To be honest I don't think you're going to like FP4 pushed to 800. I'm very familiar with this combo (120) and I've had pretty good luck pushing to 200 when the light is flat but no more than that. This film is definitely not made to push! If you really need to push it to 800 you'd be better off using DDX to try and get every last bit of shadow detail out of it, or shoot a 400 speed film pushed to 800 in ID-11.
     
  7. cluttered

    cluttered Member

    Messages:
    123
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Location:
    Adelaide, Au
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Ah, I see. Thanks for the info!
     
  8. cluttered

    cluttered Member

    Messages:
    123
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Location:
    Adelaide, Au
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I do have DD-X as well, but that is quite expensive, and I've recently been given a few bottles of ID-11, more than I know what to do with. And I have way more FP4 than I know what to do with, so I thought I'd just have some fun with the combination. But I do appreciate your info.

    I plan to do some proper tests this weekend; eg exposing for ISO 800, try a few rolls, eg 1 roll for 20 minutes ID-11 stock, another roll for 30 (!!!) minutes in ID-11 1:1, etc.
     
  9. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

    Messages:
    6,324
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Southern USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    ID-11 is not the best choice for pushing film. A better choice would be a developer containing Phenidone or Dimezone. These two developing agents do produce an increase in speed.
     
  10. Kevin Kehler

    Kevin Kehler Member

    Messages:
    605
    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Location:
    Regina Canad
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I would also recommend less agitation (30 seconds every 3 or 5 minutes) - the hope is less grain and better shadow development since the highlights develop quickly and use up the available developer whereas the shadows continue to slowly build up - that's the theory at least. The more dilute the developer, the more time between agitation (5 minutes for 1+3 and 3 minutes for stock) as it needs to soak and be given time to act; too much agitation will worsen lack of shadow density and lead to more contrast. This reduced agitation might also prevent some of the more extreme contrast from taking over but I wouldn't count on it.

    I would expect a lot of grain and little shadow detail but if nothing else, you will have a better understanding of developers and their effect on films.