Pyro PMK fixer

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by ader, Sep 26, 2004.

  1. ader

    ader Member

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    Hello all,

    I'm thinking of mixing up some pyro PMK film developer (easier than i first thought)in the next few weeks and was wondering about what fixer to use. With pyro developers the film is very sensitive to acid (hence no stop bath, only water). It needs to be a non-hardening fixer and the only non - hardening fixer i can get my hands on is Ilfofix II. The problem is this fixer contains sodium thiosulphate which to me sounds pretty acidic, but might be ok. I'd like to circumnaviagte any potential problems as money is rather tight. Any indications as to what fixer (or any other advice on pyro) would be most helpful. and alas I don't have Gordon Hutchings Pyro book at the minute, unfortunately, and can't get my hands on kodak 24 fixer....

    thanks for any guidance or responses,

    ade.
     
  2. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    sodium thiosulfate is hypo, or better know as fixer. I don't know what else is in the Ilforfix or if this fixer is the same as Ilford's Rapid fixer. We use Ilford's Rapid fixer for all film including PMK which contains ammonium thiosulfate but no hardner. As long as the ilforfix does not contain a hardner it would probably be ok. Perhaps Lee will chime in here and either confirm or correct my thoughts.
     
  3. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    An alkaline fixer is ideal. You can get TF-4 from Photographer's Formulary, and Fine Art Photo Supply sells an alkaline fixer. You can also mix TF-2 or TF-3 from the formulas in Anchell's _Darkroom Cookbook_, and I think they are also in the _Film Developing Cookbook_.
     
  4. lee

    lee Member

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    Chime Filter on...Ann has it correct. Kodak and Ilford's rapid fix is good and available. They are essentially the same fixer. Don't use the after fix soak. It creates too much stain in the base +fog areas and makes the neg more difficult to print through. Just fix and then into the wash.
    Chime filter off,

    lee\c
     
  5. papagene

    papagene Membership Council Council

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    Ade,
    I knew you would get some good answers here and they confirmed what I had already mentioned. Good luck with your developing.

    gene
     
  6. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    Use just that, sodium thiosulfate. I've seen it recommended when
    a staining developer is used. For starters try 16 grams of the
    anhydrous in what ever amount of water is needed. That is
    the amount I recommend for one roll of Pan F+ 120. A
    faster film will likely require a little more.
    Of course it is one-shot.
    Dan
     
  7. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Ilfofix is a neutral ammonium thiosulfate fixer. Use that, most home mixes are no better. In fact it's better than most, and lots better than "plain hypo".
     
  8. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    Penta or anhydrous, neither of those two sodium thiosulfates
    will spoil. Preservatives and ph modifiers are added to the usuall
    off-the-shelf fixers.
    If used fresh, the ph neutral, unadulterated sodium
    thiosulfates will do all that a fixer can do. No need to add
    anything.
    To use fresh at processing time just spoon into the needed
    amount of water an appropriate amount of the salt. Dan
     
  9. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    No, they won't. Sodium thiosulfate is not recommended for some films (and papers), because it won't dissolve silver iodide. Ammonium thiosulfate will, as will sodium thiosulfate with added ammonium.

    What makes you think "unadulterated sodium thiosulfate" is neutral?
     
  10. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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  11. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  12. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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  13. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    What I tried to say is that it's not so much the complexing that's affected by the type of halogen as the solubility of the silver halide. The effect of ammonium can be easily seen with a "clearing test" with a small piece of film. I have done this while mixing my own fixer (see "Chemistry Recipes" section), by putting in small pieces of film before and after adding the ammonium chloride. The acceleration of the fixing action is obvious, and remarkable.

    Many emulsions today contain significant amounts of iodide, with the "special grain" films being the prime suspects (T-Max, Delta etc). One paper that contains significant amounts of iodide is Bergger Art Contact, which has a chloroiodide emulsion. "Normal" fixing in a "normal" fixer is not enough for this paper - which I rather like, by the way. After fixing in a "rapid" fixer the image is stable, and will not fog with exposure to light.
     
  14. mobtown_4x5

    mobtown_4x5 Member

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    Is the formulary TF-4 sufficient to clear the high iodide materials?
     
  15. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes.

    It doesn't take much ammonium to accelerate the action to where iodide will be fixed out during normal fixing times (q.v. the recommendation for three times clearing time for many films), and TF-4 contains lots of ammonium. Much more than mine.