Pyrocat-HD

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by colrehogan, May 14, 2005.

  1. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, M
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    How will I know whether I've overdeveloped or underdeveloped with Pyrocat-HD? I've never used a staining developer and I'm going to try my first negatives with it tomorrow. These negatives are something that I can repeat and probably will if tonight's negatives in D76 stock are anything to judge by. :sad:

    Is it best to only use the developer once? I'll be developing Tri-X 320 and Maco IR with it.
     
  2. photomc

    photomc Member

    Messages:
    3,575
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2003
    Location:
    Texas
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Diane, we had a very good discussion on Pyrocat-HD earlier in the chat room tonight. First, my understanding is that Pyrocat-HD is best used one-shot. Since my experience with it is limited, there are others that can better answer the question about over/under developed better than I can. One thing I can tell you is try using the times listed over at Unblinking Eye. Oh yeah, if memory serves me correctly you use a Jobo drum for processing, so if you use a water stop bath be sure to do a least 6 full fill and dumps or use a very weak acid stop (I learned this the hard way, ended up with dichroic fog) and also be sure to use fresh fix since this is the first attempt with Pyrocat-HD.

    Can you tell I have learned things the hard way? :wink:

    Good luck and let us know how it works out, since I'm still working with this developer...all be it with different film (Efke PL100).
     
  3. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

    Messages:
    3,242
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Location:
    Milwaukee, W
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Although there is a brown stain it is not pronounced. The negatives should appear relatively normal in crontrast. Pryrocat HD is a pretty forgiving developer. The density range visually will be much the same as negatives developed in D76.

    The film I have the most experience with in Pyrocat HD is 35mm Pan F+. I give a 5 minute pre-soak in tap water and delevop them for 26 minutes with stand development...no development after the first minute of continous agigtation. @ 70ºF. I fill a container holding 3 liters of water and I put in 12ML of part A and 9 grams of sodium carbonate,,,use washing soda from the grocery store. 9 grams of sodium carbonate is about 2 level teaspoons full.

    Pyrocat HD makes beautifully sharp negatives with fine gradation. Best B&W developer this old dog has ever used.
     
  4. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

    Messages:
    6,242
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    The only sure means of testing for over and under development is to evaluate how well they print on the paper or process that you use.
     
  5. noseoil

    noseoil Member

    Messages:
    2,898
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Location:
    Tucson
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Donald is correct, just print to see what you have. If you will keep track of your technique with decent notes, things will fall into place quickly. Forget about the stain and just look at the prints. If your notes are good (time, temp, agitation cycle, etc.) it won't take too long to see what is there in a print.

    Film tests are the way to go with any film-developer combination, but many people don't like to test because it takes a bit of time to see results. In the long run, it is much faster to do tests first, then just take the pictures. tim
     
  6. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, M
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    I was looking at my D76 negs as they dried hanging in the shower late last night and despite what I'd typed before, noticed that they probably look all right. I never really paid much attention to how different the IR negs looked until I saw the same scenes shot with IR/non-IR films last night. Amazing how a late night can affect the way you see things. :wink:
     
  7. jtsatterlee

    jtsatterlee Member

    Messages:
    111
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA,
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Three good references (the two at unblinkingeye and the photographer's formulary)

    One of the articles at unblinkingeye is written by Sandy King, the second by Clay Harmon.

    Please note that you can use pyrocat in trays, tanks or tubes, you just need to adjust for each methods idiosyncracies.

    Also, most directions state not to use a stop bath, just water, since the stop bath reduces the level of staining. (I have no info on using tubes and stop baths.)

    Clay Harmon's Article
    Sandy King's Article
    The Formulary's Directions
     
  8. sanking

    sanking Member

    Messages:
    4,813
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    Greenville,
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Just for the record, while I don't specifically recommend againt a plain water stop bath, I don't recommend it either. I use an acetic acid stop bath of about 1/2 normal strength with all pyro staining developers and have not seen any loss of image stain.

    Sandy
     
  9. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, M
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    Thanks to all who replied. I finished developing about an hour ago. Everything looks okay (I think.). :smile:
     
  10. donbga

    donbga Member

    Messages:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    FWIW, I've used regular strength acedic acid stop for years and have never had a problem with acheiving properly stained negatives. This is after comparing with stoppng with a water bath stop years ago. Unfortunately a water bath stop does not immediately stop development. Based on my experience, the utility or advantage of a water bath stop is a myth.

    My 2 cents,

    Don Bryant
     
  11. noseoil

    noseoil Member

    Messages:
    2,898
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Location:
    Tucson
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Don, you're right about a water bath not stopping development immediately. However, there are two reasons I use a water bath as a normal part of processing.

    First, with the acid stop there is more of a possibility of pin holes in a soft emulsion. The Efke films I use tend to get holes in an acid stop, as they are noted to be prone to scratching and holes in general, due to their soft emulsion layer.

    Second, if your "normal" procedure is based on times and temperatures which have been derived with a water bath as part of the process, it isn't a problem. Consistency is more important for me in this respect, so I use water. tim
     
  12. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, M
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    When pyrocat is used, does the dark brown color of the solution mean it's exhausted?
     
  13. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

    Messages:
    4,532
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Yes, Pyrocat when freshly mixed should have a pale yellow color. Once it is exhausted it is brown.
     
  14. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, M
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    Thanks! :smile: I developed 4 8x10 sheets and it looks weird next to a D76 negative of the same scene. Haven't had a chance to print them yet though.
     
  15. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

    Messages:
    4,532
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    As you say, if you compare the negatives to a non stained negative the stain is pretty obvious. If you are planning on using the Pyrocat negs for your zias, give them at least 30% more exposure.
    Good luck and let us see the results... :smile:
     
  16. AndrewH

    AndrewH Member

    Messages:
    112
    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    "If you are planning on using the Pyrocat negs for your zias..."

    What are zias?
     
  17. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

    Messages:
    4,532
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Ziatypes, and alternative printing out process. Pt/pd prints are developing out prints.
     
  18. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, M
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan