Question about Vacuum Frame: wiring, tubing, electrocution, etc

Discussion in 'Ultra Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by scootermm, Sep 5, 2006.

  1. scootermm

    scootermm Subscriber

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    Yesterday I acquired a vacuum frame and pump from Jeremy Moore.
    I believe I have everything thats needed. Went to Home Depot early this morning and got all the various items Id need to finish it up and getting it running. The home depot employee in the elec dept was convinced I was going to blow my hand off from the convertor or whatever is connected to the pump with the red and blue wires (see image below).
    Does anyone have experience with this? He mentioned I should blanket it in rubber and also box it out so that it will be protected. Ill splice together the power cord and the white/black and green ground wires soon.
    Also, is the tubing adequate or do I need the metal braided tubing because of the vacuum pressure?
    Don Bryant sent over some images to Jeremy that he forwarded to me where the convertor is just lodged into the wood next to the pump. but given what the home depot electrical gent told me Im wondering if Im setting myself up to get my fillings shocked out.

    Thanks in advance, Ive posted a bunch of digishots of the setup I have at present.
     

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  2. jimgalli

    jimgalli Subscriber

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    You'll get all kinds of answers here from duct tape to environmentally sealed and locked chambers. I'd land somewhere in the middle. I'd like to see every electrical connection properly made inside a secondary metal containment that is system grounded. The 110v cord should go in through a strain relief device and the rest should be inside metal. That way if your 4 year old curious cousin happens on to it, there's nothing he can touch and get hurt. Also if there was a failure the secondary unit offers some protection against flaming motors and blown apart capacitors. The yellow paint on one of the black conductors is very likely an identifier. I'd hook the neutral to that. Important! Plug your 110v cord into a GFCI receptacle. All should be well.
     
  3. donbga

    donbga Member

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    Matt,

    You have the capacitor wired correctly. Now just connected the AC power cord. Green goes to green, white will go to the black wire with the paint marker and black goes to the unmarked black.

    You should be able to do a web search to on the pump manufacturer and get detailed info. All in all it is really simple to wire.
    Since you don't have a matched connector for the one on the pump just cut that off and use some inline connectors. I would also tin the bare wires before using connectors. Wrap the connections with electrical tape and you are good to go.

    Jim's comment about a strain releif is a good one, just bolt it to the wood you are mounting the pump on.

    So Jeremy gets the 26K now?
     
  4. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    The metal can is a run capacitor. You can enclose it in a metal enclosure if you want...however a lot of commercial equipment that I have seen over the years does not have it isolated to ground per NEC standards. Run capacitors have lower MFD ratings then start capacitors. Either one would not cause any human health risk problems if it did fail. The only risk is touching an uninsulated conductor.

    The electrical motor driving the vacuum pump is isolated to ground if you have the ground conductor connected intact through to the service panel. It will be isolated from the vacuum frame unless you have a metal to metal connection at some point.

    The vacuum hose will probably not collapse with the vacuum that the pump will pull...If it does then you can get black vacuum hose for automobile use and it should work fine...but I doubt that you will need it.
     
  5. Richard Wasserman

    Richard Wasserman Member

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    You already got good advice about the electrical connections, so I just want to say that I don't think the plastic tubing you got will work with the vacuum pump; I think it will collapse. You of course could try it as you already have it. If it doesn't work, I recommend fuel injection hose that is available at any auto supply company. It is what I use and it works great. It's available in at least a couple diameters and you can get any length you need.

    Richard Wasserman
     
  6. donbga

    donbga Member

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    The clear tubing should be fine, just test it before removing the label. If the tubing should collapse use reinforced poly like the kind shown in my pix.

    I also removed the frame brackets on the rear of the frame so it would have a lower profile to allow it to fit in my pizza oven UV printer. I also put a few layers of duct tape on the edges of the lower metal frame to make handling easier and safer.

    I also would recommend that you place a stiff piece of material over the bed to prevent the bed from imprinting a pattern into the printing paper. I used a translucent piece of plastic sold at quilting stores. This also helps keep the bed free from lint. You will need to cut a hole in the plastic to allow the vacuum to evacuate air properly or you can just clip the corner.
     
  7. scootermm

    scootermm Subscriber

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    very helpful all.
    Ill try out everything in hopes that it works. Will let you all know.
    Don, did you put a bleed valve on yours? I noticed in the pics you emailed what looked like a bleed valve. Was that to let out some of the pressure because the pump pulls more than is needed? Jeremy mentioned I might want to put one on mine for this reason.

    thanks again all for the info.
     
  8. donbga

    donbga Member

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    Matt,

    I do have a bleeder valve but it isn't really needed. I don't use it normally. At one time I was working with digital negatives made on Ultrafine Clear Film and if used at full vacuum the ink would be transferred to the paper.

    I do use it now to reduce pressure for making faux plate marks on paper.
     
  9. philldresser

    philldresser Subscriber

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    Man, you mean it sucked those electronic pixels right off the sensor :smile:

    Phill
     
  10. scootermm

    scootermm Subscriber

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    bit of a bump...
    got my vacuum frame up and running. wondering if its running TOO well.
    After a few mins its managing to pull about 15PSI. is that too much?
     
  11. donbga

    donbga Member

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    15 PSI is fine. That's about as much as you will get or need.
     
  12. Richard Wasserman

    Richard Wasserman Member

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    Mine gets up to 14PSI and works great. I think you're good, have you tried printing with it yet? If you've been using a printing frame before this, you are going to be very happy!

    Richard Wasserman
     
  13. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Actually to quantify vacuum in PSI is erroneous. The correct term is inches of vacuum. This is typically described as inches WC (water column) vacuum.
     
  14. Joe Lipka

    Joe Lipka Member

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    That looks like a vacuum gauge that reads in inches of mercury. My Gast vacuum pump pulls about 24 inches of mercury with what looks like the same set up (Nu Arc 17 x 22). The amount of vacuum pulled on the frame affects the quality of the highlights in your print.
     
  15. scootermm

    scootermm Subscriber

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    Thanks all. I havent printed with it as of yet. Its a little too wide for the small openning on my ENORMOUS 48"x24" BLB UV box. so Im going to have to fashion a door/opening on the long end to make it fit.

    thanks for the confirmation and info again all.
     
  16. donbga

    donbga Member

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    Thak you Joe and Donald. The correct measurement is in inches of mercury not PSI.
     
  17. don sigl

    don sigl Member

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    First, The rubber tubing will be fine. I have used a piece of rubber for several years and I have no problem with it.

    Second: It looks like the thing with the red and blue wires is a big honking capacitor. These are used to jump start the pump motor. THEY ARE VERY DANGEROUS. Capacitors are very common on these types of motors. A cap will hold a change long after the energy source is turned off. You should never touch a cap without first de-energizing it. It could kill you. When I set my vacumn frame up, I built a small plywood box to house cap and protect it from accidently coming in contact with anything else.
     
  18. sanking

    sanking Member

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    I have a bleeder valve and set it so that there is no more than about 5 inches of mercury. Too much pressure can definitely cause problems, especially with alternative processes where the sensitized material is humid.

    Sandy
     
  19. donbga

    donbga Member

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    Joe and Sandy,

    That's an interesting observation, one that I've never considered. Could the change in highligts be seen by printing a step wedge?
     
  20. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

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    If you want information about eletrocution I will not give it to you. Certain am I that if you really wish to electrocute yourself that you will eventually be successful.
     
  21. scootermm

    scootermm Subscriber

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    Claire that doesnt make much sense.

    the reason I posted the question was to NOT electrocute myself.
    I didnt notice any inquiry about "wanting to electrocute myself"
     
  22. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

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    Oh. Well so far it seems to have worked. I do so hope that it will always continue to work for you.
     
  23. sanking

    sanking Member

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    The issue is that if you get too much pressure, with some humidity in the sensitized material, the negative may stick to the sensitized material. This will of course damage the negative, and yes, probably cause show up in the highlights.

    Sandy
     
  24. vet173

    vet173 Member

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    Would that be 15" hg? PSI is pressure. I can't comment on whether or not it's enough, but your halfway to outer space.
     
  25. RobertP

    RobertP Subscriber

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    When I first bought my NuArc 26 1k (used of course) the vacuum gauge read 13. Two days ago it drastically dropped to 6. I called Mr. Print and they sent me a rebuild kit that consisted of a rubber diaphram. I just got done with the big rebuild job 20 min. ago. It took a whole ten min. to do. I replaced the diaphram and it is back up to 13 on the gauge. The old diaphram had a tear in it. So I think you are OK with 15 " of merc. You may want to just hit your coated paper on both sides with the hair dryer a little before you print and chase any moisture out so you don't ruin any negatives