Question for chemistry wizards

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by George Papantoniou, Apr 18, 2007.

  1. George Papantoniou

    George Papantoniou Member

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    One of which I am not... :sad:

    I found a bottle of EDTA (Ethylenedinitrilotetraacetic acid) in the shop and I wanted to know if I should buy it or not. I think it's 1 kg and it costs 35 euros (45 US$). On the bottle you can read: "Ethylenedinitrilotetraacetic acid, disodium salt dihydrate". Is it good for photographic use ? Is this a good price ?
     
  2. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    In 30 years the only time I've used EDTA is in colour chemistry, a poster in the articles section seems to use it extensively in his B&W reversal processing.

    Price wise it is cheap to buy, that seems expensive.

    Ian
     
  3. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

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    I always thought that EDTA stood for Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid.
     
  4. Monophoto

    Monophoto Member

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    George -

    Do you actually have a use for it? If not, then whether the price is reasonable is irrelevant.

    A 500g container costs US$17 at B&S, so my reaction would be to think that the price is a bit high.
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    George;

    That is a good price but probably more than you need. At first glance, I thought it read NTA. For anyone that read the initial post, sorry. I reedited.

    PE
     
  6. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Na2 EDTA (disodium EDTA, there's also a different compound: Na4 EDTA -> tetrasodium EDTA... These are aliases, not proper chemical names BTW.) is a chelation agent which is very useful if you're doing iron based alternative processes such as Pt/Pd, Kallitype, Vandyke, Agryrotype, New Chrysotype. It's commonly used as the primary "acidic" clearing bath (at 2-5% strenght). Na4 EDTA is/may be used later as secondary alkaline clearing bath (often mixing it with 2-5% Sodium Sulfite). You need an acidic first clearing bath with iron processes. If not, residual unexposed iron may react with the -OH functional group of the alkali solution and form insoluble Ferric Hydroxide which will stain the paper yellow and won't wash out since it is insoluble.

    I can buy a kg of this compound for just $5 here in Istanbul.

    Hope this helps,
    Loris.
     
  7. George Papantoniou

    George Papantoniou Member

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    Diaminoethanetetraacetic acid
    Edetic acid
    Edetate
    Ethylenedinitrilotetraacetic acid
    Versene
    Ethylene diamine tetracetic acid


    These are the names Wikipedia mentions that are used for it...
     
  8. Ray Heath

    Ray Heath Member

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    g'day george

    what would you use it for?

    distilled water may be of more use in the darkroom, and it's really cheap
     
  9. George Papantoniou

    George Papantoniou Member

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    I was intendig to use it as a clearing bath for pt/pd prints... I need 50g for each lt of clearing bath, so with a kg of it I can make 20 lt of clearing bath.

    Loris, I think that when I come to Istanbul (not Constantinople, tum, di-tum, di-tum) I'll buy some EDTA... for the time being, I have no choice... Could there be two kinds of it (this one I found seems quite "pure", since it's sold for chemistry labs, in a nice bottle etc)...
     
  10. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Kalimera Yorgos,

    See:
    Bereket Kimya, http://www.bereketkimya.com/iletisim.html
    (The picture on top, it's very close to Galata Bridge)
    For buying chemical compounds in Istanbul. Right next to Bereket Kimya there's another store for chemicals: Balmumcu Kimya.

    Yassou,
    Loris.

    P.S. Do not mix it all in once, mix fresh before each session.

     
  11. davido

    davido Subscriber

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    Loris, do you use EDTA in place of Citric Acid for initial clearing baths with VDB and Kallitypes? Is there a noticable difference on how they both clear or in the resulting prints?

    thanks
    david
     
  12. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    I personally use EDTA only with New Chrysotypes and/or Ziatypes. Never used it with Kallitype and/or Vandyke (only citric acid and plain sodium sulfite) - not because I think it's bad; I just haven't bothered... I believe it's a good practice to use Na4EDTA + Sodium Sulfite as the last clearing bath / before final wash - especially for prints you're going to sell or give someone as gift.

    Regards,
    Loris.

     
  13. George Papantoniou

    George Papantoniou Member

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    Now, that's one (more) good reason for me to travel to Istanbul... :smile:
     
  14. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Another landmark for you - in order to let you find the place more easily: the big L shape building (labeled: Misir Carsisi) on lower left corner is the "Spice Bazaar".

    Regards,
    Loris.