Question on Beatie screen.

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by kjsphoto, Jun 27, 2004.

  1. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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    I ahve been out shooting with the camera and mainly in the forest area. I have 5.6 lenses but the screen I have that comes with the camera is dark and hard to focus.

    Is the Beattie Intenscreen with Grid worth the money? Will it really help so I can see better when trying to focus?

    If not then I will just have to deal with what I have. On my MF camera I replaced the screen with the Acute-Matte screens and they made a big difference.

    Thanks again to everyone,

    Kev
     
  2. bmac

    bmac Member

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    I asked this question a couple of weeks ago. The main theme in the answers were the following.

    1) IT will only be brighter looking straight on the ground glass with both eyes, not when focusing with a loupe.

    2) A good acid etched GG will make a pretty good difference between an old dirty sand blasted one.

    I decided to try a new GG and bought one from Dagor77 on eBay (I think that is his name) and it has made a big difference.

    Hoope this helps.

    Brian
     
  3. gma

    gma Member

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    Can you determine if the new glass is acid etched or ground? Is it a considerable improvement in low light situations or only for bright scenes?

    From the responses it sounds as if a fresnel screen is not the best solution unless you are using only one lens with a focal length that "matches" the fresnel.
     
  4. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member

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    I use a fresnel (my spelling) to frame with wider lenses (f/4,5 -5,6) and take it off for fine focus. I find I don't need it for anything longer than normal. Mine is a sinar brand (as is my camera), but have read good things about
     
  5. glbeas

    glbeas Member

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    It doesn't have to be a close match. You will see the differences when switching from WA lenses to normal or to long focal lengths. Going from a 150 to a 210 shouldn't be much if any differences. This is little different from changing condensors in an enlarger when changing the lens. The fresnel is merely a lens that has been collapsed down in concentric segments. A side profile will show the curvature of the lens, each fresnel has its focal length and can focus an image at that distance like any other lens.
     
  6. gma

    gma Member

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    Kev,

    Are you using a loupe as a focus aid. Without a loupe I would not be able to get precise focus on the 104mm, f/6.3 lens I use.
     
  7. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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    Yes,

    My main concern is really to be able to see the overall composition clearly. Oh a bright day it is fine it is when I am in shaded areas is when I have the problems. And since I do a lot in areas like this I need to find a way to get more light through to the ground glass.

    Thanks,

    Kev
     
  8. bmac

    bmac Member

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  9. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    I have one installed in my 4x5 and I think it was a good investment. That said, my Gandolfi 8x10 comes with what appears to be acid etched glass and it is very bright considering it is not a fresnel. By far the beatti is brighter though, I can usually focus with it using only a folding hood, not a dark cloth.
     
  10. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

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    Does anyone know what the glass is on the Shen-Hao?
     
  11. John McCallum

    John McCallum Member

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    Beattie Intenscreen on the Shen-hao

    I just received a Beattie Intenscreen last Thurs for my 4x5 field camera. It's a great deal brighter than the glass that came with the Shen-Hao and I already found it helps a lot for composition and focusing.
    You do have to move your eye in line with the screen to focus specific areas. But this was necessary in dim light situations with the orig screen anyway.
    It is a little difficult using a loupe because of the pattern on the fresnel lens, but I've had success with a 4x loupe (wouldn't try anything with greater magnification). For the basic initial focussing it's excellent. Have even set the plane of focus without a loupe - something I could never do with the old glass screen.
    All in all I would agree with Jorge, it's has been a good investment for dim light situations.

    L Gebhardt - don't know what the Shen-Hao comes with, but I recon I could make one as good with an old window pane and some sandpaper :tongue:
     
  12. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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    Would a Acid Etched GG work better with eh Shen Hoa or is the Beattie the way to go.

    I just want to be able to compose better. I use the 4x loupe so focusing isnt a problem just the composition is what is killing me.

    Thanks,

    Kev
     
  13. John McCallum

    John McCallum Member

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    Hi Kev, with the Beattie screen it does appear more difficult to view the whole image at once. If the acid etched is brighter than the ground glass that the Shen-Hao came with, you may find it to be adequate. Unfortunately I haven't compared them both so I can't really make a suggestion. But I find the Beattie great once you get used to the screen texture (and very bright).
    John.
     
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  15. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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    How hard is it to focus it with the 4X loupe. Also what cloth are you using? The one that comes with the kit does not seem very good. Do you find it ok? Or are you replacing it as well?

    Thanks,

    Kev
     
  16. John McCallum

    John McCallum Member

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    I find it fine to focus with the 4x loupe. It's necessary to align your eye and loupe more precisely due to the light of the refracted image being more aligned. But the extra brightness more than makes up for this inconvenience to me. Another nice convenience is to get a built-in rubber eyepiece & ground glass guard on the loupe. This can allow hands free viewing through loupe - v handy for setting focussing plane.

    I persevered with the included dark cloth for a while then ended up getting the BTZS 4X5. This one loops around the back of your head (or shoulders) so it won't slip off. the velcro along the bottom makes the viewing space darker but allows easy access for focussing - big help in bright sunlight. It was worth the extra expense, I use the old one to sit on for lunch :smile:
     
  17. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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    What is the link to the BTZS one so I can check it out.

    Oh I tell you, loading your own film into the holders it not a big deal. I will not be buying readyloads as I am content with doing it myself and saving a ton of money.

    I have the Toho Loupe that comes with a rubber peice for the eye adn the ground glass. Looks like I waill have to save some money for the new ground glass, the beattie one unless I can find a nice acid etched one.


    Thanks,

    Kev
     
  18. John McCallum

    John McCallum Member

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  19. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Kevin, another focusing cloth to check out is the Blackjacket (TM).

    http://www.quietworks.com

    I just bought a Blackjacket and it is great! It is like having a very light weight darkroom around your camera's focusing screen. For the first time, I can see the whole screen (acid etched glass) on my 8x10, even with the lens stopped way down. The Blackjacket does not fall off or blow off.
     
  20. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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    Thanks for the link. I think I am getting the hang of it. I posted one image in the critique gallery.

    http://www.apug.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=552

    I think I have fallen in love with LF. It is a new way of seeing and I really like that image inverted. Very cool. I was used to viewing images backwards in my MF but upside down is really cool. I had a really nice river shot but I didnt see the lens flare sothe image is unuseable. Major bummer.

    I like how I can have the foreground in focus all the way to the back not to mention the control you have over your images.

    I need to get out and use it more and I am hopeing to get out this week and do more playign around. I am almost at the point of sellgin my 6x17 camera as I do not knwo if I am going to use it again. And the more I look at it I think an 8x10 will be in my furture. But that is way down the road, maybe a year or two. I really want to learn the 4x5 inside and out.

    Thanks,

    Kev
     
  21. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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    Tom,


    That also look very interesting. Is it easy to work with? I like how it goes black. This may solve my problem and let me continue to use the screen I have now. It was jsut hard to see the other day when I was out with the sun right behind me on a few of the shots.

    Thanks for the link,

    Kev
     
  22. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    The Blackjacket is very easy to work with - unlike my other focusing cloths.

    I just found out that Francesco uses a Blackjacket as well - and likes it very much.
     
  23. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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    Thanks. Looks like I may go this route!

    The one that comes with the camera (Shen-Hao) just blows everywhere and you have to hold it down. A little frustrating at time. I think that if I can completely block the light from entering then the screen that comes with the camera may be fine as no light is entering.

    Thanks again,

    Kev
     
  24. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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    Did you get the HYBRID one or the orginal?

    THanks,

    kev
     
  25. mobtown_4x5

    mobtown_4x5 Member

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    I'm in the same boat, I think the GG on the Shen will be just fine with a better focussing cloth (mine is homemade).

    I just ordered the 4x5 "Blackjacket" looks great. I went for the HYBRID model because I like to spend long periods of time under the cloth, and your breath can make it humid in there. I'll let you know how it works out!

    Matt
     
  26. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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    Sounds good. Yeah I am loking more and more at the HYBRID one as I also like to sit and stare at the screen. Also since it is breathable it shoudl also do well in cold weather I hope.

    Kev