question on toner

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Bobby L., Mar 31, 2008.

  1. Bobby L.

    Bobby L. Member

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    I've been checking toner out for the last 2 or three days, and not for sure what toner is ideal for B&W, I know sepia is but the other type or color toners i don't know.

    Then when it comes to storage of these toners, what type of containers should they be stored in, and how long do they have before they expire and I would be printing 5x7 and 8x10 for now so what size tray would be good for this process. Along with how to work with the toners.

    I have some prints that came out great and wrote the info on how did those particuliar prints, and would like to make them again and tone those prints.
     
  2. jeroldharter

    jeroldharter Member

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    Of course, the appeal of toners is in the eye of the beholder. You might mention what your goal is. For example, if you like the warm sepia tones of cold blue black, etc. Some people use toner primarily for archival permanence.

    Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner (or the Ilford/Kentmere equivalents) are probably the most commonly used toners for archival permanence, deepening the blacks, and a slightly colder tone.

    Sepia toner and Kodak Brown Toner can be used for a warmer, more antique look. Be aware that they both stink to high heaven (sulfur smell) and the hydrogen sulfide fumes could potentially fog paper or film in the area. However that has never happened which I have tried those toners.

    Some people like gold toners or thiocarbamide toners which impart a unique look which can vary quite a bit. Others combine toners for various effects. You should check out the book on toning by Tim Rudman which is outstanding and shows many examples of the various toning techniques.
     
  3. Bobby L.

    Bobby L. Member

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    thanxs jerold the selenium might be what i'm looking for to deepen the blacks with a slight colder tone, and as far the sepia or the brown goes it would be for those once in awhile to photos to give that antique look.

    I'm planning do the toning in my kitchen.

    now would i need additional storage containers for the toner and seperate tray to do the toning in, and if so how many trays.
     
  4. Jim Noel

    Jim Noel Member

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    If you store any light sensitive products in your darkroom be sure to remove them prior to toning with sepia or brown toner. The fumes have a tendency to fog sensitive materials.
    I use these toners outdoors.
     
  5. Bobby L.

    Bobby L. Member

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    I do my darkroom stuff in the bathroom, but when i do start the toning, i'm planning on doing it in my kitchen or i can do it in my bathroom once i remove all the equipment out and store it in the closet, until i need to develop film again. but i got a line setup in my bathroom that i use to hang my wash print to dry. will these toners fumes affect them while they are drying or finish drying?
     
  6. CBG

    CBG Member

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    If you need a grounding on toning I can't recommend a book more than Tim Rudman's book on toning. It answers your questions and questions I didn't even know to ask. I have no affiliation with the book or author, but have seen nothing to compare, and so have recommended it several times including just a minute ago, on another thread.

    C
     
  7. Shelly Grimson

    Shelly Grimson Member

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    Since any room will suffice for toning (done in daylight) why use the Kitchen? Chances of toxic stuff getting into food are greater there. If you spill some, and it can happen, how will you clean all areas easily with no residue that will dry and become airborne? I tone in the laundry room with window open a bit. I also put the tray of prints into a very large tray that will be washed after. That one catches the splashes... Just my opinion. The bathtub would be a good choice too.
     
  8. Bob F.

    Bob F. Member

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    A few points: selenium toner smells - no worse than an ammonia based floor cleaner, but probably more than you want in a kitchen but try it and see - be prepared to move elsewhere if it is too much. Selenium is a single-bath toner so only requires one tray.

    Sepia toner comes in two main types: very smelly or odourless. No prizes for guessing which I prefer... The usual odourless sepia toner will require two trays, one for the bleach and another for the toner.

    Odourless sepia toners last a long time in storage, just appearing to lose speed of change as they age. You can re-use the working solutions until they become exhausted. I don't know about the others as I don't use them much but I suspect they last a long time too.

    It's only the smelly type sepia and (I think some) brown toners' fumes that can theoretically fog unprocessed film and paper - your prints hanging up to dry will not be effected - only unprocessed materials are at any risk (which if they are in the manufacturer's packaging should not be much of a risk - but better safe than sorry I guess).

    Finally, I'll put another plug in for Tim Rudman's book; it is an exhaustive bible of toning techniques.

    Have fun, Bob.
     
  9. jeroldharter

    jeroldharter Member

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    I would not tone in the kitchen. Always a good practice not to eat where you whatever.

    You can store toner in a standard brown plastic darkroom storage bottle. However, storing and reusing selenium usually leads to a buildup of precipitate which must then be filtered (e.g. through a coffee filter) which I think is too much of a pain. For a small darkroom, I would try to avoid processes that lead to extra storage needs, i.e. use one shot chemistry.

    What I do when I print is something like this:

    • Make test strips to get to a final print
    • Settle on the final print exposure including dodges, burns, flashes, etc.
    • Make one final print that I like
    • Then, I dial in the drydown compensation factor and make somewhere between 3-10 exposed sheets of paper (copies) depending on my preference for the print.
    • I store the exposed sheets in a paper safe until I have a maximum of 20 11x14s or 10 16x20s which is enough to fill up my print washer.
    • Then I batch process 4-8 sheets at a time with the single tray method, the final step of which is selenium toning.

    So in a given darkroom session, I can generate 2-4 good prints with multiple copies, processed, toned, and washed. I spend most of the time with test prints, trying to get things right but then batch process so that I don't spend forever processing each sheet separately. I "develop to completion" to minimize any vagaries of the developing times when batching. I use only one-shot chemical so there is no storage and I always start with a fresh batch of developer and fixer.
     
  10. Bobby L.

    Bobby L. Member

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    thanxs everyone, some great info, and actually thinking of it, the kitchen would be out of the question.
     
  11. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    You asked about tray sizes. Normally the tray sizes account for the need to be able to sit the paper in the liquid, move it around and then lift it out so a 5x7 tray is a little bigger than 5x7, likewise 8x10. If you are doing both sizes you can simply use the 8x10, it saves buying a 5x7 set but at the cost of making up more liquid. The rate of usage rate should be the same so you can do twice as many 5x7s as 8x10s. Personally I'd go for the bigger trays which gives more room in each.

    pentaxuser
     
  12. Bobby L.

    Bobby L. Member

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    that's kewl. I have to pick up another 8x10 tray because the tray i use for the stop bath has a hairline crack on the bottom of the tray, so i need to replace it. and pick up 1 or 2 more to have when i do get into toning.
     
  13. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    1. Get Tim Rudman's book
    2.Read it!
    3. you can "simulate" toning using computer programs (such as this tutorial for GIMP) and then you can decide which will suit you better
    4. Use common sense, lots of ventilation and be ready to screw up more than once!