Question(s) About Alt. Process Papers

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by photomc, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. photomc

    photomc Member

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    OK, have been using Cranes Kid Finish paper for the Ziatypes I have been learning on. It is a very 'thin' paper compared to the prints I have seen in real life - So the question is, for this process - POP what other papers would be good for this type of process?

    Mateo and Jorge have been kind enough to offer me a great deal of help and the first thing they both commented on was the paper I was using.

    The papers I have been able to find are the following:
    1. Cranes Kid Finish
    2. COT-320 (which seems a good candidate)
    3. Lanaquarelle
    4. Platinotype
    5. Socorro

    are there others, what special handling is needed, which would be a good match for both POP and DOP (or could I be that lucky).

    Have more questions about clearing agents, HCA vs Citric Acid, etc and how the paper could affect clearing.

    Thanks
     
  2. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

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    Mike,
    I have been printing on Stonehenge Rising which is available from Asel Art over in Dallas (right off Routh, across the street from Photographs: Do Not Bend) ro ~$3/sheet. After suggestions from Sandy I now do 10 minutes in hypo clear then 10 minutes in citric acid and it's perfectly clear. I really like this paper, just enough texture without impeding the image.
     
  3. donbga

    donbga Member

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    Jeremy,
    Jerry's ARTARAMA sells Stonehenge White for $1.49 a sheet. They also sell Fabriano Extra White for 29.99 for 10 sheets or 249.00 for 100 sheets. They also sell magic brushes for about half price. You have to prep it with oxalic acid for palladium printing.

    It's always a good idea to check their sale items as they will often discount paper even more.

    Mike, Arches Platine works well for palladium POP or DOP. Cranes Narural White Wove 90 works pretty good with DOP or POP and is an inexpensive paper which you can order directly from Crane. It does tend to tear when wet when making prints larger than 11x14. It is available in parent sized sheets and boxes of 8.5x11.

    Don Bryant
     
  4. mikepry

    mikepry Subscriber

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    I'm really sold on the Berrger Cot 320. Very luxurious. I've used it with and without an oxalic presoak and can't tell the difference. example
     
  5. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

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    Don, I have been buying my stonehenge locally to save on shipping, but at Jerry's the shipping was only $8.95! Thanks for the website as Stonehenge is actually on sale right now: $1.49/sheet, $19.99/20 sheets or $90/100 sheets! I just placed an order for 20 sheets of white and 20 sheets of cream--thanks a bunch!
     
  6. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    2 words, Arches Platine.....

    I like COT 320, but it is too white for my taste.....

    BTW, great shot Mike!
     
  7. Joe Lipka

    Joe Lipka Member

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    I have used both Crane's Platinotype and the COT 320. COT 320 is well behaved and doesn't mind being dried at ambient temperatures. It is a "white" paper.

    I started with Crane's and it's pretty nice. Haven't experimented with it since I went to the NA2 contrast agent for Pt/Pd printing.
     
  8. sanking

    sanking Member

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    Lenox is a very good paper for Pt./Pd. printing, of about the same weight and finish as Rising Stonhenge. It has a slightly off-white color, a nice smooth surface that conveys detail well, and it gives very smooth, creamy type tones. Wet strength is not quite as good as Stonhenge, though. It clears easily in mild solutions of citric acid.

    BTW, I don't recommend the oxalic acid soak for either Lenox or Stonhenge. The soak breaks down the surface size and you lose the smooth, creamy tones.

    Sandy
     
  9. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

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    I agree with Sandy on the Stonehenge, haven't used Lennox. When I dipped the stonehenge in oxalic acid the prints were grainier and muddled.
     
  10. photomc

    photomc Member

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    Hey Guys! Thanks for the input, so it seems I can add a couple of more to the list..Stonehenge and Lennox. Now is Arches Platine and Platinotype the same paper?

    So far, my understanding is that Socorro, Stonehenge and Lennox need a bath in oxalic acid, right?
     
  11. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

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    Definitley a no on the stonehenge in my opinion. Dipping it gave me muddled midtones and a grainy texture. Double coating gives more than enough DMax. Mike, PM me your address and I'll send you a palladium on Stonehenge--or I can meet up with you in Dallas this Saturday if you're free as I haven't seen the latest exhibits at Photographs: Do Not Bend or at the Afterimage Gallery.
     
  12. sanking

    sanking Member

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    I would recommend against the oxalic acid bath for both Lenox and Stonhenge. The bath will increase sensitivity and Dmax, but it causes a grainy look.

    Arches Platine and Platinotype are *not* the same papers. Platine is made in France by Arches, Platinotype in the US by Crane.

    Bear in mind that papers such as Platine and Platinotype are made especially for Pt./Pd. printing and you can generally expect some consistency from batch to batch. Other papers, including Lenox, Stonhenge, Twinrocker, Rising Drawing Bristol, etc. are made for a wider market and are subject to variation in manufacturer that may alter significantly the way they respond to Pt./Pd. printing. For example, I recently purchased a 100 sheets each of Rising Stonhenge and Lenox. The new Stonhenge has performed very much like other batches I have used in the past, but the Lenox is quite different and in order to use if for Pt./Pd.printing some considerable modification in my working procedures will be necessary.

    In any event my advice during the learning phase of Pt./Pd. printing would be to stick with one paper until you have really good control of the process. Working with several at the same time could well drive you mad. And because you can expect some consistency with papers such as Platine and Platinotype it would probably be a good idea to just bite the bullet on price and learn with one of these papers. On the other hand, I really like the surface qualities of Rising Stonhenge, which costs a lot less than Platine and Platinotype, and have found its working qualities with kallitype and pt./pd. printing to be very consistent.

    In any event I have learned about all I want to know about kallitype and Pt./Pd. priting and am about to return to carbon printing where I don't have to worry so much about how the paper will work with the process and I don't get all these unpleasant surprises with new batches.

    Sandy
     
  13. photomc

    photomc Member

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    Update - well ran out of the Cranes and ordered some COT320 and Plantinotype and well...let's just say I understand why Jorge gave me such a hard time about the Cranes KF. This is some very nice paper and the COT320 is WHITE!! Now to see if I can get a good coating with the new brush and paper.

    Off topic - Has anyone made any notes on temp. during exposure? Because of space, I am doing the exposure outside - yeah the bugs love the exposure unit at night until now. And since it is in the 35-45 F range was wondering if that would have any affect. One thing with the Ziatypes have already noticed is that the cold - DRYER - air does have some impact on the process, harder to keep the humidity constant on the paper.
     
  14. Mateo

    Mateo Subscriber

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    We're in the middle of a little cold spell in Ca and I won't print until it rains this weekend. Even DOP is effected by humidity quite a bit in my experience. Enough so that it's not worth it for me to bother printing when the humidity goes below 60%, which is almost always the case when it gets cold here. When I lived in Texas and the Northerns came down, the Rh went through the floor so I can't imagine trying to print.
     
  15. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

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    I coat in my bathroom so I just take a shower before coating :smile:
     
  16. photomc

    photomc Member

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    Mateo, that really helps to know..had NO idea that RH played such a major part in all of this. Makes one wonder how much impact it has on traditional process. Thanks..you guys were right about the paper..WOW!
     
  17. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

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    I haven't done any printing because of lack of proper amounts of sun while I'm at home.
     
  18. wm blunt

    wm blunt Member

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    Diane,
    Printing with the sun here in MO will drive you crazy. That's why I'm the way I am!
    Good luck
     
  19. mark

    mark Member

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    That is what I love about living in Northern AZ at 6500 feet. Lots of sun. This has been a great thread. My exposure unit is really big and yellow so when I try this it is good to know that it is consistent. My POP times have not changed since October.

    I hope this is not a hijack but in the desert SW there is so little humidity that you folks' comments about humidity have me worried. How big a deal is RH in palladium.
     
  20. sanking

    sanking Member

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    Very big deal!!

    Sandy