Quick Ferri Question

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Guillaume Zuili, Mar 16, 2008.

  1. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Member

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    Help please,

    I have a print made last night that is a little too dense. I did tone it in Selenium.
    If I do some selective Ferri in the highlights will it be effective despite of the previous toning ?
    It wasn't tone to completion.

    Thanks,
    G.
     
  2. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    I think this will be problematic,, maybe Les or one of the Brits will jump in .. I am thinking you will get staining .

     
  3. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    If you try it using a dilute ferricyanide/bromide bleach if it doesn't look good you can always re-develop it provided of course you haven't refixed it. But the chances are the selenium ton will look odd.

    Ian
     
  4. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Member

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    I have 2 solutions.
    - Selective as above.
    - Quick bath of the whole print in a very dilute ferry...

    Crazy ? or not ?

    Bob, why the Brits would have a different point of view..?
     
  5. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Member

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    Ian, which bleach dilution would you advice me ?
     
  6. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Guillaume, you'll need to dilute a normal bleach bath used for sepia toning with about 4 times as much water as usual, maybe more. So if it should be 1:10 try 1:40, or even 1:60, try it on a scrap print first.

    Ian
     
  7. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Member

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    Thanks, will try this afternoon.
    Regards,
    G.
     
  8. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Why the Brits??
    from my observation of the forums on printing over the years and just from looking at books, it seems to me that the British work with colder papers, and have a 1/2 to 1 grade increase in preference over NA printers..
    In fact I think NA printers as a general , and I mean general rule prefer a warmer base paper and softer contrast. To me it is a safer print, but then one of the hardest prints to make is one that has full tone with just the hint of black to nail the contrast.
    By being bolder with coldness and contrast I think the workers over there need to bleach a bit more to bring out some detail that may be lost *or subtley disquised in a more contrastier print.

    I have a bunch of the books by Eddie Ephrams, Tim Rudman , Les Mclean and others that all have their fondness for bleaching prints.

    Maybe my head has been in the sand and there are a lot of workers here in NA who are bleach freaks, but I have met a lot that do not use ferri as a weapon in the arsenal of print making.

    I am making a series of solarizations to very large size, that require some major bleaching to give some highlight sparkle and when I posted before christmas my questions on bleaching and toning ,,, most of the replies came from over the pond..

     
  9. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Member

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    Being a european in NA... hope to get the best of both worlds !
     
  10. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Yes , I can draw on my Welsh and Scottish roots to make me a better printer.
     
  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    We don't all print on colder tone papers, and use slightly contrastier paper. You may be right about Tim Rudman, Les McLean etc, I'm not so sure.

    Personally I've used warmtone papers since the mid 80's, and definitely print a lot flatter than may amateur/club type photographers, but my contrast range and tones are very similar to Fay Godwin, Peter Cattrell and John Blakemore and many others. I wouldn't dream of using bleach on my prints.

    I've also printed the other way, jumping up a grade or more and dodging & burning more heavily, and very occasionally using bleach, sometimes that's what people want.

    Ian
     
  12. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Member

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    Record Rapid and Portriga were my first papers. Since then always warm paper.
     
  13. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Member

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    GOOD RESULTS !!!

    Ok,
    Bleach diluted 1+200
    Quick rinse
    Fix
    Wash

    There is definitely a color shift, more toward chocolate. This is very interesting . So it works !

    Thank you.

    Guillaume
     

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  14. Mark Burley

    Mark Burley Member

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    Warmer papers in Blighty...

    I print on warmtone generally. I will also overexpose by an extra stop or two when bleaching/toning. That way I can retain highlights. Before you post - yes I do compensate.

    Having said that, 90% of my prints look better untoned - as I tend to overexpose to get a warmer feel to my prints in the first place.

    I am sure if you bleach your darker toned print - you will get a much warmer chocolate brown. This usually is a step too far for me and then some! I have often tried it - but 90% of the time they still go in the bin.

    I for one should do more test prints when toning. Also keep better records so I can always repeat that wonderful tone... When I get it of course.

    I am sure that more than one book I can think of does warn about applying too much liquid sunshine after toning! :wink:

    Mark
     
  15. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Member

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    That print would have gone to the trash. Too dark and no punch.
    The chocolate shift doesn't go with my series. I will have to redo it anyway.
    But this is good to know that session works, selenium then bleach.

    Guillaume