Quick XTOL survey on keeping properties

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Michael R 1974, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,200
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Ca
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    How long after mixing do you figure 900ml of stock XTOL would last in a tightly capped dark glass 1 liter bottle stored at about 22-23C?

    Usually I use up my developer stock solutions pretty quick but in this case I mixed up a batch of XTOL in mid July and in the past two months I've only used 100ml from the 1L bottle. I'm doing some new work now and wondering if it's likely still good. And if there are any ways to tell whether XTOL has gone bad (color change etc).

    Thanks
    Michael
     
  2. waynecrider

    waynecrider Member

    Messages:
    2,294
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2003
    Location:
    Floriduh
    Shooter:
    35mm
    You should be well within it's lifespan. Some people experience 6 months and some 9 months out to a year. The biggest enemy of course is air, so I flood mine with nitrogen. I did notice years ago mine went bad when it turned yellow but that was out near a year. Basically I feel that if the solution is champagne colored your fine, and of course there is always the clip test to certify.
     
  3. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,125
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Location:
    Live Free or
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've had some last 9 or 10 months.
    I make sure the bottles are either full or topped off with inert gas ("Bloxigen").
     
  4. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,783
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have my xtol in a wine bladder and it's been 7 months and it's still in great shape.
     
  5. Newt_on_Swings

    Newt_on_Swings Member

    Messages:
    2,112
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Location:
    NYC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    5L should last 6 months, as indicated on package, but I always use it up before that lol. Separate it out to smaller bottles that you can top off to the rim, instead of exposing the whole thing to air everytime you use it.
     
  6. Neanderman

    Neanderman Member

    Messages:
    575
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Location:
    Ohio River V
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    The secret I found was to mix it in distilled water. Otherwise, mysterious white cloudy things would appear (probably a mold or something growing in it.) I get 6 months out of it, at least.
     
  7. Tony Egan

    Tony Egan Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,161
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Location:
    Sydney, Aust
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Over 12 months in a wine bladder on a few occasions in the last 10 years but normally I get through 5 litres in a month or two at the most. Never ever had a problem with XTol mixing it up in Sydney tap water.
     
  8. Jerevan

    Jerevan Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,968
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Location:
    Sweden/Germa
    Shooter:
    35mm
    At a minimum 6 months in dark glass bottles topped off, I've been using it at 8 months.
     
  9. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    17,520
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Like others my experience is always more than 12 months, it was one of my main developers for abouit 20 years.

    Ian
     
  10. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

    Messages:
    2,266
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Location:
    Metro DC are
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Are keeping properties the same for stock and replenished?
     
  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    17,520
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    My experience is yes, I've started new batches of Replenished Xtol with year old Xtol stock.

    Ian
     
  12. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

    Messages:
    2,266
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Location:
    Metro DC are
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks Ian.
    I'm trying to understand if the developer by-products (bromides?) present in a replenished line has any effect at all for longevity.

    The more I think about it I would assume they wouldn't either stifle or promote oxidation but we all know what happens when we assume. Especially where chemicals are involved :tongue:
     
  13. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    17,520
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Bruce, because I was spending most of my time in Turkey and only visiting the UK twice a year (last 4-5 years) my Replenished Xtol would sit idle for months in storage. I ran test films through before using and found no differences after a year in storage I would previously have been turning over a 5 litre batch split 50:50 stock and repleniosher in under a year, more like 6 months often continuing replenishment with another pack of Xtol for up to 2 years before starting afresh.

    Ian.
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

    Messages:
    2,266
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Location:
    Metro DC are
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Seems it's fairly robust despite the stories on the internet and possible problems they had with it at one time.

    Thanks for sharing your experiences.
     
  16. Mackinaw

    Mackinaw Member

    Messages:
    378
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Location:
    One hour sou
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have gotten one year in the past (though I usually use it up well before then). I mix with distilled water and store in one of those accordion-style containers. Xtol can last a long time if properly stored.

    Jim B.
     
  17. mrred

    mrred Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,064
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Location:
    Montreal, Ca
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I first tried XTol almost 2 years ago and then preceded to use it for all my pushes. That lasted for about 1.5 years before it went flat, with about 1 ltr left. The last run I actually put a leader in the stuff and made sure it turned black. It did, but my roll still came out clear.

    I worked out of a 4l and a 1l bottle. I actively used the 1l bottle and refilled it from the 4l. They were just juice jugs, nothing special.

    Now I was using 1:2, which made it go a long way. However 1:2 gave me the look and texture I needed. For the price, who cares....

    Since then, I am trying the replenisher approach. It gives me the dev times of 1:2 ish, but sort of gives me the guarantee that the working solution should not go flat.

    Now my drum only uses 150 ml per 35/120 roll of film. When I used 1:2, I only threw out 50ml of xtol for a one-shot. Replenishing takes a 70ml top up. I guess I am using more with replenishing, but I think it is less likely I will loose a roll of film with it. Again, for the price, who cares.....
     
  18. Роберт

    Роберт Member

    Messages:
    333
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Location:
    Ukraine - Ne
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It depends a lot of the quality of the (tap-) water. So in doubt use destilled water for Xtol and you will be fine for at least 6 months of a 5 ltr. stock. Dividing in smaller bottles will of course prolong the life time however over 9-10 months is not very wise with this type of Ascorbic Acid developer. You can also use the same type developer from Foma: Fomadon Excel W27 in the 1 ltr. packing. A tick more grain, for the rest (almost) the same.
     
  19. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,467
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Using replenished XTOL and adding stock XTOL after each development, I have kept the replenished XTOL for over two years. Note that when I used up the stock XTOL, I mixed up fresh stock XTOL and continued. As long as the stock XTOL is less than a year old, I have had no problems.

    Steve
     
  20. brianmquinn

    brianmquinn Member

    Messages:
    674
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Location:
    Cincinnati O
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I mix my Xtol with distilled water and store it in many small (330 ml) glass bottles. I set some aside for an age test. After 3 years it was still fine. But remember I never have any air in the bottles. I open it and use it all at once.
     
  21. Nicholas Lindan

    Nicholas Lindan Advertiser

    Messages:
    2,382
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    Cleveland, O
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    XTOL in a replenished line will last a long time - if it uses nitrogen burst agitation. The nitrogen bubbling through the developer will carry away oxygen as well as prevent air from getting at the developer.

    I had a batch of XTOL fail while clear a year ago. Probably 6 months old, stored in topped-up bottles. I had heard rumor that Kodak had somehow addressed the issue and so I bought a brand-new bag - same old stuff...
     
  22. Keith Tapscott.

    Keith Tapscott. Member

    Messages:
    1,416
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2005
    Location:
    Plymouth. UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  23. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,467
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Sudden XTOL failure is a problem that was addressed and corrected many years ago by Kodak. Any develop will go bad if not tightly sealed. All developers risk going bad given enough time.

    Basic Good Lab Practice: If this is a concern for any developer, take a small piece of film and test the developer prior to use.
     
  24. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

    Messages:
    7,924
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry, No
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Keith I take it that your reference is to DD and not DDX. The link certainly is to DD. However I tried to recall ever seeing it on any retailer websites, couldn't and so checked but failed to find it.

    I then tried Harman Express and there was no mention of it. Putting in a search only got me to DDX although clearly DD exists. However the tech specs for it only seem to cover large capacity dip and dunk and all temp refs are to mid 70s F.

    Maybe it isn't generally available to home darkroom users?

    Do you know where it can be obtained and in what size containers?

    This is getting away from the OP's thread but just in case he or others wish to consider using DD then the info might be useful.

    Interestingly Harman doesn't seem to state it lasting any longer than the bulk of Xtol users have said that Xtol will last if kept properly i.e in airtight containers

    pentaxuser
     
  25. brianmquinn

    brianmquinn Member

    Messages:
    674
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Location:
    Cincinnati O
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    The DDX sheet says;
    "Full, unopened bottles of ILFOTEC DD-X will keep
    in good condition for two years. Once opened,
    use within three months and keep bottles tightly
    capped.
    Diluted ILFOTEC DD-X should not be stored."
     
  26. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,200
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Ca
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for the responses everyone.

    Regarding the comments about DD or DDX though, I've got a lot of experience with DDX and I would not consider it an XTOL "equivalent" as I've seen people suggest in the past. They are really not the same. DDX is a PQ formulation and is a closer match to TMAX developer in its working properties, not XTOL.

    Michael