RB67 help...

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by cepwin, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    I just got an RB67 in from KEH. I've looked on the internet, looked at the manual and the shutter cocking lever will not bring the mirror up. It seems to only move a slight amount, not fully down as it should be. The mirror does not go up. I've tried it with the back and lens on, I"ve tried it with them off. What am I doing wrong???? Is there something that locks up the mirror???

    Thank you in advance!
     
  2. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Are you sure you are pushing the lever all the way?

    This happens to me when I inadvertently allow the neck strap to stop the lever from travelling the entire distance.

    The shutter cocking/film winding lever requires a firm, assertive push - just pretend you are Annie Leibovitz :wink:.
     
  3. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    I push it a short distance and then it seems to stop. I"m afraid to keep pushing for fear I'll break something.
     
  4. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    There are a couple of possibilities.

    First, double check that there isn't something like a neck-strap blocking its further travel.

    If that isn't the problem, it may be that the camera thinks that the film has already been wound and the shutter cocked. That means that there is a problem with the interlocks.

    Is the dark slide still in the film back?
     
  5. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    I've tried it checking that the darkslide was out and even removed the film back so there was no darkslide.. There is no neck strap on the unit nor does there appear to be anything blocking it that I can see.
     
  6. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    Wait a second! Cocking lever is supposed to bring the mirror DOWN. If it's already down, the lever will move only a very little.

    When you fire the shutter, the mirror will go UP.

    Do this. Make sure the dark slide is out. There is a little lever by the film winding lever. Move it so that a red dot shows up. Align the dot on the shutter release with white dot.
    Push the shutter.

    Did the mirror go UP?
     
  7. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    Nothing. When I put in a shutter release I hear something click but the mirror never moves. Can a mirror be locked down???
     
  8. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    Couple of things. Which RB is it exactly? RB? RB Pro-S? Pro-SD?
    Which back is it exactly? RB, Pro-S? Pro-SD?
    Is the rotating back in the right position? Either vertical or horizontal, not half way between?
    The dark slide is OUT, right?
    Where is the lever right under the winding lever?? Red dot showing or not?
    You have the lens OFF?
    Your back is on or off?
    The mirror is all the way DOWN?

    I'm having difficulty determining what you have right now and where everything is.

    There is no such thing as mirror lock but there is an Interlock if you have Pro-S or later.
     
  9. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    It is the Pro-S.

    I've tried it with the back and lens off. I've tried it with the red dot showing and not. The mirror appears to be all the way down. No matter what I try the mirror doesn't budge.

    I just tried it with the film back and lens on. Red dot by film winding lever showing. Dark slide out. shutter button on white dot. Not only does the mirror not go up but also it doesn't make the shutter release. It's almost like the shutter is disengaged??
     
  10. edcculus

    edcculus Member

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    Do you have film in the back?

    I actually just got a RB67 in the mail from KEH yesterday and kind of went through the same thing playing around with it. I didn't have film in.

    Make sure the shutter is cocked in the lens and the mirror is cocked in the body when installing the lens. To cock the shutter, turn the pins all the way to the red dots.

    IF you have a Pro S - If there is no film in with the back on, remove the darkslide so the triangle appears. By the film advance knob, you will see a little lever. It disables the double exposure interlock. Move it up so a red dot appears. You will now be able to fire the camera and recock the shutter.

    hope this helps
     
  11. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    I did what you described in terms of removing the darkslide and turning off the interlock. The mirror fails to move even with no lens. In the lens the pins never stay on the red dots.
     
  12. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    The camera is confused. The interlocks are engaged in some way that makes it think one or more of the following:

    1) The dark slide is in the way;
    2) The film hasn't been wound;
    3) The revolving back is somewhere intermediate - neither fully horizontal nor fully vertical; or
    4) The lens isn't cocked.

    Any of the above circumstances will prevent you from releasing the shutter.

    Double check the rotating back - even if it is just a couple of degrees off of clicking into place it will prevent shutter release.

    Is the "Mirror Up" function engaged on the lens? That might confuse things.

    Have you read through the "Special Pointers" on page 39 of the manual?
     
  13. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    Thanks everyone. Some aditional info. When I took not the back off but the ring that connects the film back to the body it started working like a champ. So it appears there is something about that ring that is blocking it. Could that be the RB out of alignment??? Is there some interlock on that ring itself?? Could the ring be defective?? Do I need film in there if that ring is on? Could there be soething broken in the body where it connects to the ring? At least I know roughtly where the issue is.
     
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  15. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    The revolving adapter has it's own set of interlocks, and helps connect the interlocks on the camera to the back.

    So yes, if the revolving adapter is not working properly with the body or the back, it can cause problems.

    I have had a situation in the past where I had a problem with a revolving adapter that I was able to isolate because I was able to swap it out with another. I'm guessing that isn't your situation.

    Is there any chance that the revolving adapter wasn't mounted properly in the first place? Try separating it from both the camera and the back and then reassemble it adapter to the body, and then back to the adapter.
     
  16. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    Tnx...actually I removed and reattached the adapter several times. That's how I isolated the issue to the adapter
     
  17. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    KEH is really good about replacing bad components. Just give the store a call and they'll arrange for an exchange.
     
  18. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    Yes, they're closed today but I'll call them on Monday if I can't get this sorted over the weekend.

    I did try to take notice of what happens when I press the shutter...there is a little plunger that goes out the back and my guess is it's getting blocked by something in the back and can't go back far enough to fire..take the back off there is nothing blocking it..
     
  19. Pigpopper

    Pigpopper Member

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    Darkslide interface

    I pulled the rotating adapter off my ProS and noticed that at the lower right corner (when facing the back of the camera) my rotating adapter has a floating pin (that I think engages the pin that you referred to on your camera that sticks out when the camera works).

    On the handle of the dark slide, there are two pieces of metal that wrap around the handle and engage a tiny lever mechanism. If I push the dark slide in, the metal on the dark slide pushed the tiny lever in and the floating pin will not push in. When I pull the dark slide out slightly, the tiny lever mechanism is spring loaded and follows the metal piece on the dark slide out, allowing the pin to push into the rotating adapter. I think the spring loaded tiny mechanism on your rotating adapter is not moving out of the way of the floating pin, which in turn is not allowing the camera to fire.

    Good luck.
     
  20. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    upper-right.JPG Here is a picture of the part that faces the upper right side. This is where the problem may be but I"m not sure. I checked the floating pin (thk for the tip) and it seems to be moving freely so that doesn't appear to be an issue. That leads me to the corner pictured where there appears to be something that is moved when the darkslide goes in and out but also a big silver piece that I wonder if it's supposed to move.

    Matt...I actually found the thread from 2 years ago when you ran into this exact same situation and it sounds like in your case it was defective. Again, if I can't figure it out by when KeH opens Monday I'll call them.

    One other thought...if the interlock is confused would it help unconfuse it by loading film? I do have the double exposure interlock turned so the red dot appears (disabling it) as was suggested earlier.

    Thanks again everyone.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2013
  21. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    If you have a spare roll of film (or even a spool and some backing paper) it cannot hurt to try loading the back.
     
  22. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    Tried it...no luck :sad: It sounds like I need that adapter replaced by KEH
     
  23. Pigpopper

    Pigpopper Member

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    Picture of the problem (perhaps)

    I compared your picture to mine and I think you have discovered the issue. I was on the wrong end of the adapter in my previous reply. Sorry about that.

    In your picture, directly above the black thing the adapter is laying on and directly underneath the tiny screw in the picture, there is small tiny piece of shiny metal sticking out and "pointing" at about 4-O-Clock (if we were looking down on a face clock). Directly above the tiny screw is a rectangular cutout were the dark slide metal piece pushes in. Mine has a piece sticking out with the dark slide pulled. You can compare my picture1 with yours.

    On my adapter, with the dark slide pulled out, I can see a tiny piece of metal that pops out (Arrow A in pic 1).

    In Pic 2 I rolled the adapter out of the way so you can clearly see that piece A is pushed by the dark slide and rotate piece at arrow B out of the way and allow pin C to be pushed by the camera pin. I think...

    These pieces are also in place to prevent you from taking the back off with out the dark slide in place.

    Any way, if they do not take care of it, it may be possible to take the thing apart and at least see what the problem is, broken piece, stuck piece, broken spring, ect.

    Good luck.
     

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  24. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    Thank you for the picture. I was able to turn the back and it looked like that piece of metal (C) was pushed too far in. It doesn't seem to move freely but I was able to push it out and it then worked. I guess the question is is that pin supposed to move freely like the thin pin that goes into the camera which does move freely or was it just out of position and I had to push it back in? I have film in there but after I finish a roll I'll have to see if the shutter can fire with the darkslide in? (ie. did I disengage an interlock to prevent that by pushing it out. Does "C" move freely on your's??? I know A and B do and should. If it doesn't that maybe a job for lighter fluid? In the meanwhile I should be able to shoot a roll with it tomorrow :smile:
     
  25. Pigpopper

    Pigpopper Member

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    Thank you for the picture. I was able to turn the back and it looked like that piece of metal (C) was pushed too far in. It doesn't seem to move freely but I was able to push it out and it then worked. I guess the question is is that pin supposed to move freely like the thin pin that goes into the camera which does move freely or was it just out of position and I had to push it back in? The round pin only moves freely with the dark slide out since the camera is designed to not allow photographers to shoot up a roll of film with the dark slide in and ruin the film. I think the pin or pins on back of the camera aligns with the round pin in the adapter and with the dark slide is out, the metal piece A & B rocks out of the way and lets the round pin be pushed in so the camera can fire, kind of like a safety on a gun.

    I have film in there but after I finish a roll I'll have to see if the shutter can fire with the darkslide in? No, the camera cannot fire with the dark slide in. The dark slide has to be pulled out at least until you can see the little triangle on the dark slide.

    (ie. did I disengage an interlock to prevent that by pushing it out. Does "C" move freely on your's??? A&B work together to allow C to move or not move. This is happening on both sides of the dark slide - A&B work together to lock and unlock the camera. You are not supposed to be able to pull the film carrier off the adapter with out the dark slide in or you will ruin the film (if there is film in the film holder). My pin will not move freely with the dark slide in.

    I know A and B do and should. If it doesn't that maybe a job for lighter fluid? In the meanwhile I should be able to shoot a roll with it tomorrow. There may be some grease (degraded light seal?) build up and a degreaser may help. I would use an electronic cleaner instead of lighter fluid. Lighter fluid being for lighters and flammable.

    If you don't have a manual to read the basic operations, you can google and find down loadable PDF version.

    Glad to hear your taking pictures.

    Have fun.
     
  26. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    Thanks. It sounds like a degreaser of some sort as the pin doesn't move without a little force even with the darkslide out. I had to use a pen to push it out so the camera would fire.
    I have the manual but it doesn't get to this level of detail (how the interlocks work.)

    Thank you and everyone else who helped again.