RE-START of MACO IR 820c ????

Discussion in 'Product Availability' started by WRSchmalfuss, Jan 20, 2007.

  1. WRSchmalfuss

    WRSchmalfuss Member

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    In the InterNet forums in the whole world, the rumors concentrate themselves over a re-start of the MACO IR 820c film.

    MACO has let manufacture nearly for 10 years, this film with the EFKE (Fotokemika) in Samobor/Croatia. EXCLUSIVELY! On a very high quality level - it gave not one entitled complaint in these nearly 10 years. If problems arose, then they were again and again, the usual typical things, which come along with infrared films evenly in such a way with itself. In order to provide the users reliably with informations, MACO had presented a comprehensive brochure, which can be today, still be downloaded under www.mahn.net.

    When the "old Fotokemika" had lost the experienced active, for many decades co-workers, due to a change in generations, and a new Fotokemika NOVA was founded, MACO did not give no more new productions of the proven MACO IR 820c film in order. That had reasons, which cannot be described now in details. Above all, however, and that is not discreetly, qualitatively. due to the bleeding of the proven technicians, no more new production were to be brought with the name MACO in a good agreement.

    Fortunately, MACO was offered at that time, the possibility of letting by the AGFA GEVAERT in Belgium, a 400 ISO high speed film, which was superior in all important parameters to the old product. But.... the NM-range is unfortunately reduced. That let less experienced users to the impression, this film would not be a real infrared film. Only briefly to it: If one exposes theeeee ROLLEI IR 820/400 on approx. 15/25 ISO, under black filter (not red filter) and then process with a strong developer, e.g. the ROLLEI RHS or the ILFORD MICROPHEN, then one, if all conditions are correct, will get perfect IR effects. Who exposes, however, extremely for a long time, not trusting the strength chemistry, will never receive good results. Also, however, the world of the ROLLEI infrared film users is quite split. Therefore, demand/desires arose for a re-start of the proven MACO IR 820c again.

    In order to answer the rumors with a special statement: MACO does have just finally decided NOT to dare a RE-START of the old MACO 820c with the supplier EFKE. In addition, above all, the qualitative reasons gave the final excursion.

    MACO met co-operation with the strategic partner AGFA GEVAERT in Belgium/France the decision to pour a new ISO 100 infrared film with 850 Nanometers. This film is already in the testing practice, and will be introduced to the market in the course of the year 2007.
     
  2. 25asa

    25asa Member

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    Oh! YES!! Good News!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!
     
  3. GeorgK

    GeorgK Member

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    a) This is defintively good news for IR-shooters (o.k., I am not), and kudos to MACO for supplying the b&w-market with such products.

    b) I absolutely don't find it fair to devaluate the actual technical resources and competence of Fotokemika, based on unverified stories, only to justify MACO's move from one supplier to another. Efke films are now mostly distributed under the ADOX label, and while MACO had re-labelled a lot of Efkes in the past, I do not think they will do so in the future. But this does not justify the spreading of rumours about "EFKE being not good enough for MACO anymore".

    Regards
    Georg
     
  4. Jerevan

    Jerevan Subscriber

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    Mr (?) Schmalfuss, in all kindness and curiousity, do you represent someone, such as a producer or reseller? I've looked at your earlier posts and announcements and I can't really figure out if you just are very enthusiastic, a reseller/producer or both of them.
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    My sources tell me that the IR sensitzing dye is in very short supply. I wish them the best of luck getting it in the future so that production can continue.

    PE
     
  6. WRSchmalfuss

    WRSchmalfuss Member

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    New IR film

    Hello Jerevan!

    I can assure you, that I am absolutely not a producer nor an reseller!

    But.. what has this to do with the content of this thread??
     
  7. WRSchmalfuss

    WRSchmalfuss Member

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    Hello GeorgK!

    Pls read between the lines and then you will find out, that you are wrong with your para b) not knowing the facts!
     
  8. Jerevan

    Jerevan Subscriber

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    Thank you very much, I am only curious. The reason I asked is because there has been many rumours about a lot of stuff happening or not happening in the last few weeks. Sometimes it has been hard to understand whether people posting in these threads are official persons, representing a company, for example. Not knowing this, makes it hard to evaluate how substantial the facts are in a thread.

    If you were a reseller/producer the thread content would have more of an "official announcement" status. However, I am thankful that you have given this report. Let us look forward to the new IR film!
     
  9. jstraw

    jstraw Member

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    Vetting the source of a rumor seems prudent.
     
  10. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    So if you don't have some sort of financial interest in Maco or its products, could you please clarify your source for this information?
     
  11. KenM

    KenM Member

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    Sounds like uraniumnitrate.

    Types like uraniumnitrate.

    Could it be?
     
  12. Aurelien

    Aurelien Advertiser Advertiser

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    I was thinking that Agfa was dead... So the coating unit is still alive? Why not coating APX, so?
     
  13. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    It seems, as stated in several posts, that the former Agfa small "Research" coating line still exists, even though the large "production" coating line is gone.
     
  14. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Which, depending on the machine, may limit output to 4x5 or 8x10 maximum sheet size at about 1/10th the speed of production which was also about 10x wider. So, volumes will be very very low if even true.

    PE
     
  15. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    Well, "small" is a relative term. I believe you, as well as other posters commented that the research "kettle" was 40L, and the production "kettle" at Agfa was 1000L. Don't know if this even relates to coating machine size.
     
  16. ADOX Fotoimpex

    ADOX Fotoimpex Partner Partner

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    Fotokemikas IR Film (developed by Fotokemika engineers in the 90ies) with 820 nm and formerly distributed by Maco will probably be back in production at Fotokemika Nova´s in about 2-3 months and will be available from ADOX in Europe and from Freestyle in the US.
    Possibly also from Maco if they, once more, happen to change their mind, which I would very much welcome.

    As far as our plans about revitalising "products which are similar in specs like products which used to be former Agfa products" are concerned, we are focussing on emulsioning and contract coating for the first years. The research coating lines are for reasearch only with low productivity and they are used for just this purpose right now, running in loops of 2 Meters. After all we work together with emulsionists who know what to do to recreate emulsions which are of a kind to make up products with very, very similar specs to what used to be known as MCC or APX. That´s what we aim for.
    If you are in doubt: Go and buy Agfa leftover stocks from Maco right now as long as supplies last. Then you have something 100% original, with an orange box and with the original logo on.

    We are here for the time after that, won´t be able to put products out any time soon but love´d to keep products with similar specs in commerce for many years to come.

    Regards from Berlin,

    Mirko

    (35 years old, dedicated to b&w photography and wanting to stay in business for at least 30 more years to come).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2007
  17. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    As far as I can remember, I have never commented on the kettle size of agfa equipment, as I don't know what it was. I could guess, and I might use a hypothetical example.

    I can say that the research coater is as Mirko describes above because Kodak and Agfa both used similar small lab coaters, but Agfa used metric and Kodak used English measurements. The Kodak machine was probably quite a bit larger because it coated 10 - 100 ft lengths.

    I want to comment for Mirko's sake. Making a coating on one of these machines does NOT guarantee that it will scale up to a large batch of emulsion or a large coating. Michael and Paula have seen that, I guess, from their work on Lodima paper.

    PE
     
  18. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Not really all that much. Both seem to be thinking in German while typing in English, but that's where the similarity ends.
    Far!! Too few!!! Exclamation marks!!!!
    Isn't. :D
     
  19. JanaM

    JanaM Member

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    Dear Jerevan,

    Wolf Rainer Schmalfuss (WRSchmalfuss) is a german photographer with excellent direct contacts to Hartmut Schroeder, head of Maco (Stapelfeld, Germany). So his statements about Maco products are like official statements from Maco.
    Wolf Rainer Schmalfuss himself confirmed this in the german analog photo forum www.aphog.de last year.

    Regards,
    Jana
     
  20. Jonathan Brewer

    Jonathan Brewer Member

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    ' MACO met co-operation with the strategic partner AGFA GEVAERT in Belgium/France the decision to pour a new ISO 100 infrared film with 850 Nanometers. This film is already in the testing practice, and will be introduced to the market in the course of the year 2007.'...................

    ................Sounds very good 2 me!!! This sensitivity out to 850NM is a done deal then? Is there a possibility of publishing some of the test results eventually?
     
  21. WRSchmalfuss

    WRSchmalfuss Member

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    It should be unfair to say the truth?

    to B) It should be unfair to say the truth? Do you expect seriously, that MACO should specify all the complaints about EFKE? But not really! The customers of MACO received, exactly this disaster, nevertheless, only with the MACO PO 100c film, with which the MACO own-final-inspection had unfortunately shamly failed. Thousands of German photgraphers know this detail, because the PO 100c, was one of the most popular films of MACO. And, MACO would not take, nevertheless, such a successful, popular product voluntaritly from the market, if serious reasons for it are present.

    Regards