Really magenta Kodak EIR

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by frugal, Jul 13, 2006.

  1. frugal

    frugal Subscriber

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    Well I got my first roll of Kodak EIR back from the lab yesterday. Overall, I'm really happy with the results but I did have a question about the filtration.

    I had read that the recommended filter is a deep yellow filter (wratten 12) and rating the film at 200, or at least as a starting point. I didn't have a deep yellow filter so I used a yellow filter (wratten 8) and still tried the film at EI 200. The density looks fine so my exposure was good. The main "problem" (whether it's a problem is debatable) is a huge pink/magenta look to a lot of the shots. This is particularly evident on the first half of the roll, I shot it in an old graveyard hoping to get a nice warm-cool split with the stone graves going blue and the trees going magenta-red. Instead, most of these shots are predominantly magenta. It was a hot sunny day so was this just a case of there being too much IR or could some of this be compensated for with a different filter?

    In classic fashion, the shots that I'm happiest with are the ones I did on the 2nd half of the roll after I'd gotten tired with shooting the graveyard and just walked around experimenting with how it would react with my more typical subjects.

    I hope to have scans of the roll reasonably soon so I might post an example if that would help.
     
  2. ZorkiKat

    ZorkiKat Member

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    Hi

    I've only had the chance to use Ektachrome IR once, and used a K2 (yellow filter for BW) with it since I didn't have the Wratten 12 or R72 filter then.
    The film was already past its expiry date by about a year and was exposed at EI 200. It was used mostly under tropical sunlight. The resulting pictures didn't have any magenta cast in them, and came out looking like typical colour IR shots. The filter you used may not have caused the magenta cast-
    but then again, IR photography is already tricky, and colour makes it even more. It's always subject to a lot of things- karma included :D

    Like what you observed, foliage goes magenta and stone goes rather blue.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    These shots were made with a Ukrainian FED-1 rangefinder, a 50mm lens, and a Russian Ж-2 (yellow#2) filter.

    Jay
     
  3. frugal

    frugal Subscriber

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    Your first example shot is a lot more like what I was hoping to get. In a lot of my graveyard pictures though the stone went magenta too. I suspect it's more just the type of stone or the fact that the graves are really old and have a lot of moss and lichen on them so there was probably enough organic material for them to go magenta too. Definitely salvageable for some, just not what I expected (which is part of the fun of shooting the film in the first place).
     
  4. terri

    terri Subscriber

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    I've shot exactly 2 rolls with it, and for the majority of the frames used a deep yellow filter, too. I shot a few frames with an orange filter and actually preferred the color cast.

    Was yours processed E6? I sent mine to a lab in Florida that would only process with modified C41. I have read that E6 will exaggerate the magentas.

    A couple examples:

    with a yellow filter:

    [​IMG]


    With an orange filter:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

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    Frugal,
    Can you post a scan of your image? I've shot a few rolls of EIR and had them processed by the E6 process. The images that ZorkiKat posted are what is typical of E6 processed film shot with a yellow filter.
     
  6. glbeas

    glbeas Member

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    Some E-6 proceses need to have the time adjusted upwards in the first developer for EIR, could be the lab didn't do that. I've seen the results of the misdevelopment to be very heavy magenta results. I was using a Unicolor E6 kit then and didn't realise the adjustment was needed. This is where its nice to do your own E6 so you can calibrate the development to the film.
     
  7. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

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    There is also a possibility of IR sensors being left on. This can fog the film giving it an allover kind of magenta look.

    Here is a link of several I have online....

    http://www.RobertHall.com/missions.html
     
  8. frugal

    frugal Subscriber

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    Okay, I should clarify, it's only on a specific set of shots where it's predominantly magenta, a series of shots in an old graveyard. I was expecting the grave stones to go blue while the grass and trees would go magenta (similar to the examples that Zorkikat posted). The grass and trees did go magenta as expected but so did the grave stones. These shots are at the beginning of the roll but I have 2 shots before them that don't exhibit the overall magenta look and the 2nd half of the roll doesn't have it either (other than in organic material) so that leads me to believe that the processing was done properly (which was E-6).

    I guess what I'm asking is it possible for some stone to reflect enough IR to go magenta and/or was it that there was enough moss and lichen on the stones to do it? Is it possible to adjust some of that effect with a different filter on the camera or would that likely kill the magenta-red effect in foliage as well?
     
  9. bob100684

    bob100684 Member

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    the gravestones were reflecting more IR light then you thought then.
     
  10. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

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    I would say that there must have been enough moss and lichen on the stones to do it. It doesn't take much at all.
     
  11. frugal

    frugal Subscriber

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    I think so, I'm guessing it was the moss/lichen that was doing it. I think they are salvageable (definitely if I use the D-word), waiting to see how the scans turn out. I could've scanned them myself but a friend of mine is running the whole uncut strip for me for the cost of the blank CDs. Means I won't get them back until Monday but the time savings should be worth it.

    Fortunately the 2nd part of the roll has some cool stuff on it that I'm really happy with so I don't consider the roll to be a waste at all. I tend to shoot more industrial abstracts and with some of those shots I got really eerie almost monochromatic shots. Plus I came across a 55 Buick parked down by the waterfront and it came out really neat. It was a two-tone light blue and white, the white stayed the same but the blue shifted to a pink that almost looks like a 50's car colour anyway, the chrome went cooler but still has a really nice metallic quality to it. It almost looks like a normal pink and white 55 Buick except that the blue asphalt and pink foliage in the background give it away, more subtle though.
     
  12. frugal

    frugal Subscriber

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    Okay, here's an example of one of the really magenta shots. I think it is just the amount of IR being reflected but I'm still curious if different filtration would affect this.
     

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  13. frugal

    frugal Subscriber

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    Here's the sequence of shots of the '55 Buick I mentioned, I'm really happy with the way these turned out.
     

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  14. frugal

    frugal Subscriber

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    One more shot that I'm pretty happy with even though it's not the characteristic effect from EIR, I really like the coolness of this image.
     

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  15. glbeas

    glbeas Member

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    Those colors look a lot like those of the rolls I processed in the unicolor kit. The reds should be darker, almost blood red for some plants and the color of the ground and rocks should be more neutral. I'd say you do have a bit of a problem with the processing, exactly what I can't say.
     
  16. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

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    Given the subject matter, I think it looks just fine, i.e. it's not overly magenta. All a different filter will do is make it look a different color. A polarizer may have helped a little (I'm not sure as I've never really tried one with this film) or else maybe try the shot again when it's overcast. The moss on the stone isn't helping you to get that cool blue you are looking for. Yes, there is a lot of IR being reflected by the grass and the moss in this shot.
     
  17. frugal

    frugal Subscriber

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    Thanks for the advice, I think it was the conditions. I picked a really hot bright sunny day thinking that would help get the IR effect but maybe I overdid it. Obviously the photo of the grate is so blue because there's nothing really reflecting IR in that shot, but I like the effect.

    So if I were to shoot it in less sunny conditions, I should expect a bit more of a red in the foliage?
     
  18. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

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    From a book titled, "The Art of Color Infrared Photography" by Steven H. Begleiter, he implies that when shooting in open shade/overcast skies, you will see a reduction in contrast and an increase in cyan throughout the scene. He then goes on to say that because of limited exposure latitude, your images will appear to have more color saturation, especially in the highlights.

    I have never really shot EIR in overcast skies, except in winter when there was snow on the ground (pretty cool too!). I should thaw out a roll and give it a whirl.