Recommendation for 4x5 and 8x10 drums?

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by LFman, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. LFman

    LFman Member

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    Hi, everyone!

    I am hoping someone could recommend a single tank that could process 4x5 and 8x10 film. I do have a Jobo machine but will probably sell it since I intend to do some overseas landscape shooting and want to get used to the non-machine operated tanks (lugging a Jobo with me is not feasible). I currently do B&W in trays, but am moving to colour as well, so I'd like to do both B&W and colour in the same tank (not at the same time!) in daylight conditions.

    I am completely confused by Jobo drum numbers and have zero experience with Paterson, BTZS or other brands. I am open to any brand that can handle the two film sizes, preferably doing multiple pieces of film at the same time.

    Any recommendations for a single tank that could do this would be MUCH appreciated.

    Many thanks,

    Daniel
     
  2. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    The Jobo multitank 6 will process up to 12 sheets of 4X5 (on reels) and 2 sheets of 8X10 inside the tank with no reels.
    You can use it with a roller base, but doing color in an un tempered environment might be tricky (though you can figure out a way to do that).
    You can also do roll film in the same tank (with another type of reel).
    Its the ultimate do it all solution for LF\roll film.
     
  3. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    Forgot to mention - the roller base is a very very small thing, that breaks down even smaller, and its cheap too :smile:
     
  4. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    Which Multitank 6 tank can do the 2 8x10 films?

    As far as I know, for 8x10, you need the expert drum.
     
  5. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    Every multitank 6 can. As it is the same as 2830, one can load 2 sheets of 8X10 in a multitank 6\2830 with no modifications needed.

    Expert drums would be ideal for 8X10, and any other format smaller then that, but will require lugging it around, it is fairly large... Also, if you do use it for anything smaller then 8X10 you will be wasting some (up to 50%) of the chemistry.
     
  6. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    I do not think this is correct. Most of the Multitank 6 (25xx tanks) do not have the ridges to hold the sheet films. You may be able to get away with just one film, but not two at the same time.

    Jobo is strongly against using print drums (28xx) for sheet film. There are ridges to anchor the films, but the ridges (rails) inhibit the flow of chemicals to remove the antihalation layer during processing.

    For 8x10 film, use Expert drum or other devices.
     
  7. rjbuzzclick

    rjbuzzclick Member

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    I use Beseler and Unicolor paper drums. Before I had motor bases I just rolled them back and forth on a 2x4 by hand. The spouts can leak light, but with a little care, it's not an issue, even for HP5+ shot at 1600. Also, it only uses 200ml of chemistry for up to four 4x5 sheets.
     
  8. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Subscriber

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    I have a few Multitank 6 drums (marked as Multitank 6 and 2830), they all have the ridges. My Multitank 5 does not. I process all my B+W and C-41 8x10 in the Multitank 6 with excellent results. I did extensive (and expensive) testing to see if there were any ill effect from the small ridges on the back side of the film and found none: neither visually on the negative, in the resulting print, nor densitometrically.
     
  9. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    I always use 2509 for 4x5. I have 2830, 2840 and 2850. I may use some old films to try it. What I wonder here is that, if 28xx drums work just fine, then why folks still pay $500 for the expert drums. They can have the 2830 for less than $50...
     
  10. John Koehrer

    John Koehrer Subscriber

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    They just don't know where the information is available.

    I understand there's a site called apug or something that may have that information.
     
  11. mark

    mark Member

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    Where can someone get a 2830 fro less than 50?
     
  12. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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  13. LJH

    LJH Member

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    I use 28xx drums for 7x17 processing with no issue.

    In fact, the idea that the ridges inhibit chemical flow seems farsical to me as the film does not sit hard up against the barrel wall (it only touches in the very middle of the sheet, and only very lightly then), allowing chemicals to get in behind.

    In addition, as I always run a double pre-wash (3 minutes/empty/2 minutes), the AH layer is generally gone before the developer touches a sheet. What's left will be removed during the following stages (however, there has NEVER been any AH colour staining of the Developer/Stop/Fixer, leading me to assume that the whole of the AH layer is removed during the prewashes).
     
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  15. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    That is the same discussion.

    I always follow manufacturer's recommendation. I believe they know better than everyone else. Sure you can take a chance, but I do not.

    Same with the discussions on having safelight in color printing, tray color processing and not wearing gloves with color chemicals. You may be able to get away with it most of the time. But they are not recommended.

    But glad to know that people having success with using 28xx drums with 8x10 films. I have several of them. If this is the case, then the 3062 and 3063 should be good too.

    But I do not see any problem if you only process one single sheet of 8x10 with 25xx tanks. There are no rails and no overlapping.
     
  16. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    From reading your threads, where you post questions, then answer them yourself, later noting all who said anything else then you as being totally wrong, it seems that in fact - you everything better then everyone else :wink:.

    All 2500 and 2800 tanks and modules have ridges, except for as noted in this thread - the multitank 5 which is smooth inside.
    I have not yet seen a publication by Jobo recommending against using film in print drums.

    Alas - its good to have RedSun's OK in the matter, it must mean that after all the info provided by everyone in this thread is correct :smile:
     
  17. LJH

    LJH Member

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    I found this where the caution is written (lower part of the page).

    What I haven't found is anyone actually stating that they've had a problem with 2800 series/ sheet film. I have, however, found myriad different comments about successfully using them.
     
  18. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    Stand corrected, though as you say - it works just fine in spite of the warning :smile:, so all is still well.
     
  19. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    Oh well, I do not know why people do not want to hear what they do not like to hear :confused:

    If you are a pro and shoot several hundreds of 8x10 sheet films every year, why do you want to take the risk of doing something the manufacturer does not want you to do? You do not want to find out in a hard way that, in 5 years or 10 years from now, that some of your films are ruined because of your processing.

    I remember the discussion on skipping film stabilizer with C-41. Again, why taking the risk?
     
  20. LJH

    LJH Member

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    I use process lenses on my camera to shoot infinity. Are you saying that I shouldn't? Do we stop shooting X-Ray film for our cameras? Should Caffinol be banned and the beans used for making coffee? Do those who use Surveyors' tripods have to trade in their cameras for Theodolites? No more using black t-shirts as dark cloths? Should I not hike in tennis shoes? Do I need to stop using clothes pegs to hang film?

    Find me some evidence that shows that 2800 series drums ACTUALLY causes issues and I might subscribe to your theory.
     
  21. Stephanie Brim

    Stephanie Brim Member

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    Is Jobo continuing the Expert Drums now that they're making the processors again? I've been wondering that. It seems like the website still lists them, but no one has them...
     
  22. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    I bought a Jobo 3010 Expert Drum new for about $300 from FreeStyle [an APUG Sponsor] in Los Angeles. It can handle up to 10 sheets of 4"x5" film. I have used it for black & white and for color C-41 processing and it is worth every cent that I paid for it.

    The Jobo 3004 Expert tank can process up to 4 sheets of 5"x7", 4 sheets of 8"x10", or 4 sheets of 8.5"x12".
    The Jobo 3005 Expert tank can process up to 5 sheets of 5"x7", or 5 sheets of 8"x10".

    Think beyond the upcoming trip. If you keep your Jobo processor you could be processing black & white and color film for years in these tanks.

    I hope that helps.
     
  23. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    I do not have evidence because I do not do that. I just repeat what Jobo says in its manual.

    I like to have the peace of mind know that I'm doing the right things....

    I'm not saying other are wrong. I may try it some day for fun, but I won't do it for my work.
     
  24. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    I posted a link to a discussion about using the 2800 drums for 8x10 film and in that discussion I noted that FP4 8x10 would occasionally stick to the drum and it made permanent marks on the back that did not go away with re-fixing and/or re-washing. So, there are some combinations of film, developer and drum that don't mix. Presently I use both the expert and 2800 drums with T-max developer and Ilford HP5 8x10 film without getting marks on the back. I even wash the film in the 2800 drums but I rinse the back of the film in a tray of water before the photoflo.
     
  25. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    Is that on the edge, or random spot on the back?

    One thing I've been thinking is that, if you just process one sheet of film and do not use the rails, you may be able to get away with using 28xx/25xx tanks. The film would float in the chemicals, but the no direct contact with the rails...
     
  26. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    We have them :smile:.

    Jobo never stopped making them, but distribution worldwide has changed a bit.