recommendations for 4x5 dev w/rodinal?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by djkloss, Oct 7, 2005.

  1. djkloss

    djkloss Subscriber

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    I just started playing with my dad's speedgrafic. I'd like to try using rodinal with efke. i'm starting with tray developing small quantities. I read that you shouldn't use an acid stop with this film. so I need suggestions for two things... rodinal & ... what are the options for non acid stop baths?

    Thanks! any suggestions would be great!

    Dorothy
     
  2. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I've done lots of films in Rodinal recently - all ISO100 films seem to be fair in Rodinal 1+25 for 10 minutes.

    I never use stop bath at all, just water.
     
  3. dphphoto

    dphphoto Member

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    Hi: you can use water. If you want, use a deeper tray than you use for dev and fix, and agitate the film for a minute or so just as you'd agitate in the dev and fix.
    To be extra safe, you could clamp a hose to the tray and run the water at a low flow rate to get a continual change of water.
    I haven't used acid stop on film since the late '70's, when I read that Judy Dater used a water stop (in "Darkroom" or "Darkroom 2," I forget which.) It's a lot easier on film.
    Which efke? Rodinal is great; so is HC110 in dilutions weaker than dilution B. Welcome to 4X5!!
     
  4. reellis67

    reellis67 Subscriber

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    I too use water for a stop bath. Since I use TF-4 fixer, which according to the manufacturer should not be used with an acid stop, with all films and I've never had any problems.

    - Randy
     
  5. P C Headland

    P C Headland Subscriber

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    I use a water stop bath for Efke and Classic Pan films.

    I stick to 1+100 dilutions of Rodinal, and develop my 9x12cm and 4x5" film in a tank (120 Gepe tank) either one at a time by slipping the film in emulsion side in, or two or more sheets using rubber bands around the film (taco method).

    This way I can do most of the process in daylight.

    Paul
     
  6. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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    My experience with Efke is that PL100 (Efke 4x5 film, 100 ASA) turns out well in Rodinal 1+50 at 10 minutes max., so Rodinal 1+25 for 10 minutes for Efke 100 would be way too much. YMMW....

    I also do Efke R100 (120 film) in Rodinal 1+50 for 10 minutes.

    Denis
     
  7. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I like a higher contrast than most - the "mesocontrast" which gives the prints life and is difficult to manipulate in printing. Then I burn and dodge in printing to get the macrocontrast right.

    But that's just my way of getting the results I like!
     
  8. Ronald Moravec

    Ronald Moravec Member

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    Use water or nothing. I skip that step. With Rodinal being so dilute, it probably won`t make much difference if you skip it or not.

    I use alkaline fix, so an acid stop is out for sure.
     
  9. djkloss

    djkloss Subscriber

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    Thanks all for your suggestions. I haven't decided which Efke, just that I like the comments I've heard about it from Apug members & from J&C and how it's great combined with Rodinal. I found some 20 year old Sodium Sulphite in my inheritance along with some crystalized rodinal. I was wondering if the SS was an alternative for non-acid stop baths? Or is that another topic?

    Thanks again...

    Dorothy
     
  10. Kayus

    Kayus Member

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    I just recently tried EFKE25 and APX100 in Rodinal. Both new film and developer to me (after TMY/TmaxRS combo for several years). There are 2 things: Using Rodinal and EFKE Film (120). Using Rodinal I found: Agitation is very important, thats why we see times from 7 to 17mins @20C. I follow Rodinal leaflet, and it says, first minute cont agitation, then 1x (!!!) / 30 secs. It really felt strange, just inverting the tank 1x after being used to 4-5x/30secs. But it really works and speed is also acurate according to Agfa (25 for EFKE25 and 100 for APX100, both in 120 though). For EFKE25 I use 1+100 (18mins) and for APX 1+50 (17mins). I used Pentax digital spotmeter for metering (somehow didnt work when using Gossen LunaProF)
    Second: Dev 4x5". After getting frustrated by doing it in the dark in trays and still getting scratches, I finally used Jobo2500 tank (6sheets and 1500ml dev) and agitating by inverting like roll film. No problem so far, just using more developer than tray/rotation.
    Just my USD0.02
    Kayus
     
  11. djkloss

    djkloss Subscriber

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    I have two more questions & am getting frustrated with my dial-up connection! slow! actually 3.
    #1 I know Rodinal is a one-shot developer. I can't find anything on capacity for sheet films.

    #2 Also, most of the information I've found is for kb25. I ordered the PL25. are the times/dilutions the same as for roll & 35mm?

    #3 Is there a book on this stuff? I'm spending hours doing searches and trying to piece it all together. I checked the Afga site, and their tech site is pretty generic.

    I'm using or will be using Efke25 roll & 4x5.

    I promise... no more questions after this! it'll be trial and error ... :smile:

    Thank you all!

    Dorothy
     
  12. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    I like to mix enough Rodinal working developer solution to completely cover the film (for a roll of 120 in a small Kindermann tank I mix 500ml). The surface area of a 36 exp roll of 35mm film is approximately the same as the surface area of a roll of 120 film. 3 sheets of 4x5 have about the same surface area as these roll films. Therefore, the development capacity is the same for these 3 examples.

    For PL 25 times and dilutions in Rodinal, see:
    http://www.jandcphoto.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=2

    For a given temperature and agitation scheme, the time and dilution for a single 36 exp roll of 35mm will be the same as the time and dilution for a single roll of 120 rollfilm (or 3 sheets of 4x5).

    See the answer to question #2
     
  13. Earl Dunbar

    Earl Dunbar Member

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    Dorothy:

    The books I used were Ansel Adams' The Negative, Fred Picker's Zone VI Workshop Minor White's Zone System Manual. [Note: Please, no one start a zone system argument here! These are just the books I used and they all have useful information on determining exposure and development for one's specific film and developer combination.]

    The basic concept is to "expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights".

    I used both daylight tank (Yankee) and tray development techniques. Both have problems. The Yankee tank gave uneven development often enough that I abandonded it. I would be willing to give it a try again using a modified technique. Tray development of more than one or two sheets at a time sometimes produced scratched negs. (One hint here: use large trays. A 5x7 tray for 4x5 film is not big enough, in my experience.)

    When I start processing 4x5 again, I will use deep tank and hangers (Kodak), even though it means doing it in the dark.

    I will start with Rodinal, and may test with others as well. I used HC-110, Rodinal and Edwal FG-7 in the past. All were good choices, each with its own characteristics.

    Create a test plan, take notes as you test, work slowly and methodically, and you will be fine.

    Earl
     
  14. Kayus

    Kayus Member

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    #1 I know Rodinal is a one-shot developer. I can't find anything on capacity for sheet films.

    I read somewhere (couldnt find it right now, but will go back when i find it) Rodinal capacity is 10ml/rol/ equivalent, meaning 4 sheets 4x5" or 1 sheet 8x10" regardless of dilution. But tried 5ml and its ok for me (10ml + 500ml for 2 rolls 120)
     
  15. argus

    argus Member

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    There are as many other voices that say "don't mind the 10ml AFGA guideline". It is a safety margin from a manufacturer.

    I develop up to 6 4x5 sheets in 1/200, a total solution of 1 Liter (in a spacer divided tray, no agitation) and leave the sheets in for app. 50 minutes (covered by a larger black tray so I can turn on the lights once the sheets are in the developer). I guess the developper is fully exhaust after that time
    The result is very nice as per my standards. It works for TRI-X 320, FP4+, HP5+.

    G
     
  16. joeyk49

    joeyk49 Member

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    Have fun with the trial and error. Don't let it frustrate you. But don't stop asking the questions. Others, (i.e. Me) learn from the discussions here and hopefully improve our own work. I just recently started developing 4x5 myself and was happy to see this thread develop... :smile:

    Cheers!

    Joe
     
  17. djkloss

    djkloss Subscriber

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    Thanks. It can be rather intimidating around here. But I'm determined if nothing else. I've seen some beautiful work on this site and it gives me inspiration as well as frustration.

    I just realized that four 4x5 sheets put in a plastic sheet protector take up the same amount of space that a roll of 35mm film or a roll of 120 film takes in a sheet protector. therefore.... it would only make common sense right?. I think you're right. I'm digging too deep. I guess I'll have to also try the film testing procedure mentioned by David Vestal & Ansel Adams. If it improves the success rate I'm all for it.

    Thanks for all your feedback.

    Dorothy
     
  18. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    No, Sodium Sulfite is not an alternative for stop bath (plain water - or nothing at all - works fine with dilute developers).


    Sodium Sulfite IS useful as a Fixer Clearing Agent (like HCA). Use 20 to 30 grams per liter of water to make a working solution. Soak the film or paper for 5 minutes after fixing, then wash.