recommendations..

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Ed_Davor, Apr 30, 2006.

  1. Ed_Davor

    Ed_Davor Member

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    Ok, for too long have I been sticking with the same kind of film, I'd like to try something new...

    Spring is here, sommer is coming, there is a lot of green around..
    But i find that the negative films I use (portra films) give this weak
    bright shade of green, I don't know maybe they are accurate, maybe not, but
    that's not the point, I'd like something different..

    I have two questions:

    1.which negative film in your opinion would give me really deep dark heavy 3D greens, sort of like old Velvia 50 would, but I'm talking negative film here...
    (and also which paper do you recommend THAT film to be printed on)

    2.Also, I haven't tried new Velvia 100 yet, and haven't used 100F either, so what's the difference between the new velvia and the old one, and where does 100F fit in there? What's the difference between these 3 emulsions.
    I've used only Velvia 50 for a long time. So what's the difference between 50, 100 and 100F ?

    thanks
     
  2. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    I would try some of the Kodak UC(Ultra Color) films, has better saturation than most that are around..

    Velvia's If your used to the 50 I would try the 100(no F) over the F, the F does not seem to have the saturation that I like and is flatter in the saturation dept, of course this is my opinion, but I like the non-F better than the F, another one to try that can be nice and saturated, which I use all the time is Kodak 100VS, that has been replaced with the 100GX(if I remember right) both great films.

    Dave
     
  3. Ed_Davor

    Ed_Davor Member

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    100VS is still made, 100GX is not a replacement for it, it's a different "actor" in the series, which is supose to be a warmer version of 100G

    But anyway, I could try UC films as you suggest, I haven't yet...

    But, let me clarify a bit more what I am looking for, not really saturation as much as depth, high-quality reproduction of green plants, but still with nice saturation (not too much though, otherwise I'd go for slide film)

    Here is the thing, the most common negative for outdoors that I've been using in the past few years was Portra 160VC and 400VC. Though I like these films for outdoor scenery of city and people, I really don't like the greens, I find that they are a bit "weak", lack depth and a a bit on the yellow side, and don't really work good in darker parts.
    So, what I'm looking for is a colder reproduction of green, that works well with dark shades and has great tone separation (doesn't dumb down every shade to the same puked-out yellow green), fine gradations, and nice saturation (but not as much as Velvia)

    I'd expect Fuji to come up with something like that, but currently they only seem to have two moderate speed negative films, Reala was nice, but doesn't exist any more. How is that 160 speed (was it S or C?) film from Fuji, any good with greens and cyans?
     
  4. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    Interesting, we were told almost 2 years ago, but the Kodak rep at the store I was working in, that the E100VS was a discontinued film, and I can't find it in the curretn Kodak Master Catalog, but I am sure they could have mis-communitcated what they were doing, I have been known to hear things differently than what was being said, The only way I would suspect you will find a film that works in your opinion is going to be try a few of the various emulsions to see what delivers the goods for you.

    Dave
     
  5. roteague

    roteague Member

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    Ed,

    I can't help you with #1 since I don't shoot color negative film.

    As for #2. Velvia 50 is no longer produced, it has been replaced by Velvia 100. The 100F came out a couple of years ago; I suspect as a replacement for the 50, but it was so badly received that Fuji had to come out with an alternative, hence we have Velvia 100. IMO, the 100 comes close to the old 50 in color, is sharper and has better response to low light. I've always found the 100F to be pretty "blah" in terms of color.

    I would suggest trying Velvia 100, to see if you like the results.

    One little trick I picked up when shooting in the woods, is to use a warm polarizing filter (like the Tiffen) - it does wonderful things with the green. I have not tried this with color negatives, so I can't tell you how it would react.
     
  6. Lee L

    Lee L Member

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    Ed,

    I've been shooting Velvia 50 since it appeared on the shelves, and one of its great strengths is its ability to differentiate nuances in greens. I had a chance recently to shoot it alongside Velvia 100, along with two other photographers, all with different camera systems. One of the other photographers is a botanist, has shot tens of thousands of Velvia 50 frames, and sells nature work, especially wildflower and botany shots. In looking at our results, we found that the Velvia 100 was more strongly biased towards cyan than Velvia 50. Skies, greens in spring trees and fall color shots, all tended to have a somewhat more cyan bias, and less red content. This might be in agreement with Robert's finding that a warming filter (shifting the film back to the traditional Velvia 50 response) helps with the greens. One of the things that Velvia 50 does is give a reddish cast to dead brown leaf litter and pine needles, but this became more orange than red with the new Velvia 100, again indicating a bit less red content.

    I also tried a couple of rolls of Fuji Pro 160S a few months ago, and was very impressed with it. It has great dynamic range, and captures color nuances, including greens, extremely well. I was impressed to the point that I ordered a brick. I've had it printed on Fuji Crystal Archive and Agfa Sensatis papers. The greens tend to go more Kodachrome dull on the Agfa paper. On Fuji Crystal Archive, the greens are vibrant, and green nuances are differentiated in a manner similar to Velvia, although comparing print and transparency film is a bit of a stretch. I haven't had prints from 160S made on Kodak paper, so I can't speak to that. I've done a lot of "spring green" shooting with the 160S over the last month, in which differentiation of greens was critical to the shot, and am very pleased with its performance. To get the best from it you'll need a good lab or DIY. You don't say if you're doing your own printing. I'm wondering if your current disappointment with the greens you're getting from color negatives isn't really at the printing stage. Labs often print too light for good color saturation, so perhaps you should request denser prints. I had to have a roll reprinted last week because the nearly all green content in the photo threw the printer much too magenta. I just asked them to throw in the "spring channel" and reprint.

    The Fuji Pro 160S is well worth a try, and I suspect may achieve what you want.

    Hope this helps.

    Lee
     
  7. nworth

    nworth Subscriber

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    I usually dislike Velvia, but for this application, try it. The new Velvia 100 has corrected many of its predecessors faults while keeping excellent saturation and particularly good greens. If you need really exagerated saturation, try the 100F. For a negative film, Kodak 100UC is excellent overall. Although they give good greens, I have had some problems with the shadows with Fuji negative films. (Fuji has recently introduced improved versions of those films, and the problems (mainly crossover-like color changes) may have been corrected.)
     
  8. Ed_Davor

    Ed_Davor Member

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    can someone please explain what crossover is?
     
  9. Lee L

    Lee L Member

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    Color crossover is a characteristic that requires different filtration for neutral color balance in different parts (shadows, midtones, highlights) of the negative. An example: If your highlights are neutral, your shadows may be too green, and if you balance for neutral shadows, the highlights would then shift too magenta. If you were to draw a characteristic curve for each color layer of the film, the curves would have different slopes, and would cross each other when normalized, ergo "crossover".

    I've heard this complaint about the Fuji line of print films in the past, especially when comparing their consumer film line to Kodak. A review of the Fuji Pro 160S by Ctein in Photo Techniques last year didn't indicate that this was a big problem with the film, and he's pretty sensitive to it.

    Lee
     
  10. Ed_Davor

    Ed_Davor Member

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    oh, I get it, thanks
     
  11. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    Try a roll of Fuji Reala, it's a four layer emulation that I tried lately and was very impressed, its very sharp and it's very good in mixed lighting . I mainly shoot portraits and use Fuji Pro 160s, but wanted a more "punchy" film for general photography, I like reala a lot.
     
  12. Ed_Davor

    Ed_Davor Member

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    Yea, I liked Reala, but they don't make it anymore (exept for superia reala which is nice but not quite the same)
     
  13. Derek Lofgreen

    Derek Lofgreen Subscriber

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    I am no expert on this but I have noticed a great difference in the greens of foliage when I use the Kodak UC 400. The color seems true to life with this film. Others I have used seem to make everything some shade of green even if it wasn't green. Like hay grass, dark green stalks with light amber seed heads. Kodak UC renders it that way. Other films seem to want to make it all green.

    D.
     
  14. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    Are you sure

    Is Superior Reala the same film renamed, it still has the same designation CS ?.
     
  15. HerrBremerhaven

    HerrBremerhaven Member

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    Good morning,

    Kodak 100UC, as another poster mentioned, would be a very saturated colour negative film that would go beyond what you are getting with the Portra films. While I rarely use colour negative films, this is one I don't hesitate to take with me. The other nice aspect is that it does a nice job on skintones.

    The various Fuji Velvia flavours are mostly heavy green blue saturation biased, though it seems that 100F creates a bluer result than Velvia 100. The older Velvia 50 is more saturated all over. I found in a comparison that Kodak E100G did a better job with green tones than either Velvia 100 film, so that is another one you might want to try out. I should qualify that I was photographing an old Morgan painted Brooklands Green, a somewhat difficult subject for many films.

    You can compare (quickly) the Kodak E-films at:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof...Family/compare.jhtml?id=0.1.24.14.13.16&lc=en

    In general, the G and GX varieties are fairly close. My personal feeling is that E100G is really close to Velvia 100F. Most of the subjects I photograph need colour performance in a different realm, so I use more E100VS than any other film. The other film I use a great deal of is E200, because I have been able to work out pushing it to 4 2/3 stops; unfortunately they don't make this in Readyloads, so I only use it in my smaller cameras.

    The best thing to do is pick a scene, then test shoot several films in similar lighting conditions. Pay attention to the shadows, and see how several films react to colour in those areas. You can also find that many transparency films will handle 1/3 to 1/2 stop more or less exposure, and sometimes that slight difference might be more to your liking, or more what you had in mind.

    I see picking films a little like picking paints and brushes, each will render a slightly different idea to creatively express a scene. There is not really just one absolute, more like many different very good choices. Hopefully you get to enjoy many of these.

    Ciao!

    Gordon
     
  16. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    Ed Just to back up Bentley's point. I have the Spring/Summer 2006 Fuji Connect Magazine and it lists Reala in 120 and 35mm designated CS and part of the Fujifilm Professional range.

    It doesn't list Superia,presumably as it's not part of the Professional range and I'd be surprised if it was a renamed Superia Reala.

    pentaxuser
     
  17. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    I emailed Fuji Professional u.k. and got a reply from Jerry Deeney, a senior market specialist at the company who confirms that Reala CS and Superior Reala CS are the same film,I'm pleased to say I really like the stuff.