reduced contrast developers for continuous agitation?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by alanrockwood, May 26, 2009.

  1. alanrockwood

    alanrockwood Member

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    Are there any developers that can provide relatively low contrast in a rotary processor?

    Also, how about developers that can to this at a temperature 75 F?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    You could use a developers like ID-3 which is a Metol based Soft working developer, Ilford used to recommend a filmdevelopment time of approx 12 minutes @ 20°C (68°F) or 9 minutes @ 24°C (75°F). Kodak's equivalent developer was D165.

    If you want even lower contrast use POTA. However I'd be inclined to use something like Rodinal diluted 1+100, that's sufficient to reduce the contrast of most regular films.

    Ian
     
  3. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    What you need is a developer of low energy. If rotary
    with it's constant agitation is your method then high
    dilution is not possible.

    A home brew which would likely work well could be
    compounded using metol plus a little sulfite and
    powered by bicarbonate of soda.

    A usual off the shelf might also work well if
    loaded with one of the chemicals used in
    tropical developers. Dan
     
  4. Lowell Huff

    Lowell Huff Inactive

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    For rotary processors, we recommend our F 76plus Developer @ 1+14 dilution @ 75ºf. To lower the contrast, you can increase the dilution
    (1+19) or lower the temperature to 70º.
     
  5. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Pyrocat is great for rotary development. You have to adjust your times from tank processing, obviously.

    If you want to try Pyrocat, I have a dry kit from the Photographer's Formulary that I can send you (if you're in the US). I won't use it.

    - Thomas
     
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  6. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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  7. BobNewYork

    BobNewYork Member

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    I've successfully used Rodinal 1:150 with Tech Pan 4x5 - admittedly not with rotary processing; but if it works well with Tech Pan it should be fine as a controlled contrast developer with "ordinary" film.

    Bob H
     
  8. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    ic-racer, can you post some of your attachments here, for us that are not members of that forum? (please) :smile:

    I'd like to see your results as I had no luck at all with Rodinal and rotary.
     
  9. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Sorry, I did not realize you have to be a member to see the images.

    Here is the processing setup: [​IMG]
    Here I am measuring out the Rodinal:
    [​IMG]
    Here is a screenshot of the Rodinal worksheet that does all the calculations for the dilutions and timing: [​IMG]
     
  10. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Scan of a projection print on multigrade paper. Film is a very slow 35mm Tech Pan-like film, with conventional developers the film is very contrasty. (this was Jobo rotary processed with 1:100 Rodinal, 10cc per roll with 8 changes of developer).
    [​IMG]

    Evenness of the Rotary processed dilute Rodinal is very good (per other tests). As a reality check I did do a comparison with some Technidol and the same Tech Pan-like film and, as expected, the rotary-processed negatives were unusable due to extreme unevenness of development.
     
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  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Can't see why on earth you need to do all those changes of developer, seems rather long winded and much more prone to problems. I've processed 5"x4" Technical pan in a Jobo tank at 1+200 and it's far easier, my tanks are pre-Rotary Jobo 2000 series but there's no reason you can't use yours the same way, upright with the full volume of developer covering the film, in my case that's a litre of developer per reel (6 sheets of 5x4).

    Ian
     
  12. mikebarger

    mikebarger Subscriber

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    I use the same developers, HC110 and 510 pyro, for all my film. I generally use a semi stand for 120 Tri-x 400 and rotary processing for 4x5 HP-5.

    The only difference is I've tested for the correct development time for each process to place zone VIII on the negative as a zone VIII on the print.

    I'm not sure why you'd need a different developer for each type of processing, at least not for 510 pyro and HC110.

    Mike
     
  13. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    No one NEEDS to do 1:100, but thats the way I do it. Since the tank is on a lift, the number of fluid changes is pretty irrelevant.
     
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  14. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    The problem I've had with Rodinal in rotary processing is that I get negatives that are over-developed with very high contrast, even at short developing times. It is a very powerful developer that rewards changes in agitation, and I suspect that with the extremely vigorous agitation that rotary processing gives, you'd have to exhaust the Rodinal in order to give any control.
    I could be wrong, but I tried many dilutions, couldn't get it to work. So I tried Pyrocat and HC-110. Much better.
    Anyway, I don't do rotary development anymore as I gave up sheets, and the results I get with rolls in stainless steel daylight tanks and manual agitation are much more to my liking. Plus the control I get with agitation makes it a more useful tool for the way I shoot.

    Thanks to ic-racer for posting those items.

    - Thomas

     
  15. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Just to let you know, I also tried cooling to 15C to get longer times with less-concentrated Rodinal. It works, but with a 22C room temp and 17C tap water, I had to use 6 bottles of slush in the Jobo. The slush bottles needed to be re-filled about every 5 minutes and it took about 20 minutes to cool all the way down. I wound up using all the ice from our kitchen ice-maker just to get down to 15C.

    Also, in the mulit-change paradigme (at 24C) there is more going on than just diluting the developer. Due to the filling/emptying time, a 7 min run is really 3 minutes of film-developer contact. So, much of the time the film is wet with developer but not submerged. I was setting up some experiments to extend the no-contact phase to see what would happen, but have not done it yet.
     
  16. Kirk Keyes

    Kirk Keyes Member

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    I use a Jobo at 75F and with Acros and XTOL 1:1 I can get a CI that's less than 0.40 without excessively short times.

    What CI are you looking for and with which film?

    Thomas - what dilution were you using for Rodinal, how many sheets in the drum, and what volume of developer?

    I use 1L of developer pretty much all the time and I've yet to burn a motor out. And always pick the lift up with the end of the support bars, not the handle alone...
     
  17. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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    Interesting about the 1L of developer Kirk....I assume you are using the expert tanks, and not one of the 2000 series tanks...how many sheets would you estimate you have developed in the Jobo expert tanks without any problems using the 1 L of developer ....many of us have been warned to use only about 500 cc even though we "help" the lift with our hands...the issue might not be the lift, but the motor turning the heavier tank.

    I am learning much from this thread. Is Kodak Tech Pan still available? I thought not.
     
  18. Kirk Keyes

    Kirk Keyes Member

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    I use a Jobo 3010 Expert drum.

    I'm not sure about the total number of sheets, but I've "standardized" on 1L for about 15 years expect for a short period when I was using PMK and I tried using 1500 ml, but there was noticable drag on the motor then. So I went back to 1000 ml (and I've added a nitrogen bath to eliminate arial oxidation of pyro developers) and I use a speed setting of "4". But I guess it's in excess of 300 batches/runs, and I try to have 10 sheets in the drum so that I can keep the sq. inches of film to volume of developer constant.

    Make sure you have the water level high to help "float" the drum, but not too high that it lifts off the rollers.

    I've heard the warnings too, but my Jobo doesn't seem to mind. Jobo says the maximum capacity of the drum is 1000 ml.
    http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/us_analog/instructions/instructions_misc_expert_drums.htm

    Kirk
     
  19. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Kirk,

    500ml (that's all I can get in there before it starts to leak back out), Rodinal 1+100 or 1+200 at 70*F.
    Two 5x7 or four 4x5 sheets at a time or less.

    - Thomas