Replacement for Agfa APX25

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by VidJa, Mar 27, 2006.

  1. VidJa

    VidJa Member

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    I guess this question has been asked a thousand times before on this forum, but after being out of the B/W loop for 14 years i'm a little lost. I want to start b/w again, but I have no stock left.

    I used to shoot on Agfa APX25 developed with microdol-x or t-max developer and enlarged on Ilford multigrade FB (if I all remember well from the top of my head)

    What would be a nice combination to use these days where every shop goes digital (including myself)

    Since I do not have a dark room at home anymore I'm planning to use the following workflow:
    - develop the film at home using a dark filmloader bag.
    - scan the file and select the printable ones on the computer
    - cycle 10 miles to my parents house to print the negative I want.
     
  2. Petzi

    Petzi Member

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    APX 25 is available, it is sold under the Rollei brand, it is called Rollei Pan 25.
    Microdol-X and T-Max developer are also available.
    You can also have Ilford Multigrade FB, but it is not cheap.
     
  3. Soeren

    Soeren Member

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    Blonds or Brunettes ?
    Are you looking for the APX look or just a finegrained film ?
    There are lots of alternatives and you will probably get a dozen different sugestions.
    Ilford Delta 100, Fuji Across 100, Ilford Pan F, Adox CHS 25, Rollei Pan 25, Gigabit and all the other mikrofilm/developer combinations, The Ortho films and and .........
    I would say. Find out whats available to you and pick a couple of those and see which you like best.
    Cheers Søren
     
  4. Amund

    Amund Member

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    Petzi, I don`t think you should continue spreading this unconfirmed rumor.
    From the Rollei Pan 25 pdf file(can be downloaded here )
    it says the Rollei Pan 25 has a crystal clear polyester base.
    APX 25 has a grey acetate base.

    The pdf says: Rollei Pan 25 has a NC "non-curling" coating.
    APX 25 sure doesn`t, it`s quite thin and curly.

    How do you explain these differences?
     
  5. Petzi

    Petzi Member

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    If it really is so, then the Rollei Pan 25 is probably made by Efke. I know that Maco (who supply the Rollei film) made Efke/Adox use the clear base for their film. I don't think they could have coerced Agfa to change their film base. I apologize if I was wrong about this one. Normally the rumours I spread prove correct in the end. :smile:
     
  6. Amund

    Amund Member

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    Petzi, I have sent an email to Rollei to hear what they say about it, hopefully they will answer. But I think the base material "evidence" is clear(pun intended) :smile:
    And I`ll try to get a roll or two of the Pan 25 to compare with the APX 25 I have left.
    While it probably isn`t APX 25, I hope it`s a good film.
     
  7. Petzi

    Petzi Member

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    I read that Rollei Pan is "Made in Germany". They got me with that. It could have been only Agfa film under these circumstances. I shall make a careful distinction between "make" and "coat" in the future.

    The data sheet for Rollei Retro 100 and 400 does not mention the film base. I think there is a consensus that this film is APX 100 and 400.
     
  8. SteveH

    SteveH Member

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    Well....
    The rumor that I haev heard is that you both are right. Some how, some way or another, Rolleipan is APX 25 emulsion coating, on a different base. But, there can be many busses driven though the holes in that rumor too...
     
  9. Petzi

    Petzi Member

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    It is not unlikely that Efke attempted to make an emulsion that has properties like APX 25, given the howling and mourning that the discontinuation of APX 25 caused. They may have seen a market opportunity here.

    I don't know why Maco demanded the clear base from them though. The only answer I have for that is that it may be an advantage for reversal processing to make slides.
     
  10. Amund

    Amund Member

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    I`d love the rumors to be true....
    I`ll try some Pan 25 and see what it`s like.
    And the Retro 100/400 rumor sounds more likely to be true.
     
  11. xkaes

    xkaes Member

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    Get over it

    Rollei Pan 25 is NOT Agfapan 25 nor Agfa APX 25. Get over it. It's not an urban myth -- it's a lie. I've used Agfapan 25 for the last 30 years from 4x5 to submini. Rollei Pan 25 is NOT the same stuff. The best alternative I've found is GIGABIT 25. It's made in GErmany, not cheap, and it is not sold in the USA -- at least not in 4x5 -- but it has the same straight CI line as APX -- developed in THEIR developer (which comes with the film).

    I shoot GIGABIT 25 4x5 at ISO 12 -- just like Agfapan 25 -- but my freezer is full of APX 25 in the 35mm size, so I'm all set in that format. If GIGABIT is not an alternative for you, I suggest Ilford Delta 100.

    Let's stop this silliness. APX 25 is dead, long dead, much to my sorrow. Get over it.
     
  12. battra92

    battra92 Member

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    Exactly.

    propose that it's time to try a new film. There are lots of great films out there so why not grab some Rollei 25, Efke 25, Efke 50 etc. and have some fun with the slow films that are out there.

    Best of luck.
     
  13. edz

    edz Member

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    Gigabit is not a film but a solution containing a microfilm and a developer.

    Gigabit in 35mm is Agfa Copex Rapid (its only available in 16mm and 35mm rolls)
    Gigabit in sheet film/120 is Agfa Copex HDP (its available in 166mm wide 5mil rolls).

    Other "alternatives" are other microfilm and microfische stocks.. Key are the developers. Current "state of the art" are the SPUR developers.. Gigabit is an earlier stage of the development from when Heribert Schain was partners with Detlef Ludwig. Ludwig went on to create "Gigabit" and Schain continued to tinker and established his SPUR series of developers...

    Personally I see the main benefit of these microfilms in submini formats.. They are not APX25--- I really liked its tonality once the contrast got tamed. in 4x5" I'd grab a film with better tonality.. something like (if you want to speak Ilford) FP4 or HP5... or if I wanted something "special" then Ilford Ortho-Plus..
     
  14. Fotohuis

    Fotohuis Member

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    >>Gigabit is not a film but a solution containing a microfilm and a developer.

    Gigabit in 35mm is Agfa Copex Rapid (its only available in 16mm and 35mm rolls)
    Gigabit in sheet film/120 is Agfa Copex HDP (its available in 166mm wide 5mil rolls).

    Other "alternatives" are other microfilm and microfische stocks.. Key are the developers. Current "state of the art" are the SPUR developers.. Gigabit is an earlier stage of the development from when Heribert Schain was partners with Detlef Ludwig. Ludwig went on to create "Gigabit" and Schain continued to tinker and established his SPUR series of developers... <<

    Indeed 100% correct info.
    Same like Retro 100/400 (35mm) is APX emulsion from the bought masterrolls.

    Rollei R3 is a TSF on clear layer and n.c.; fits with depth developers like AM74 1+7/R.H.S. or CG512/R.L.S. Practical E.I. 50-1000.

    A nice industrial I.R. film, Rollei IR-400.

    And the Rollei Pan 25. Has nothing to do with APX25 nor Efke25. Coorperation between Maco/(Rollei) and Efke in Croatia is already terminated for almost two years or so.

    Try it and you will like it, or not. I think it's a good film and can certainly compete with PAN F or Efke 25, a single layer film but totally different than the Rollei PAN 25. Hopefully their Q.C. is better than Efke.

    Robert
     
  15. Petzi

    Petzi Member

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    Who makes the Rollei IR-400?
    Who makes the Rollei Pan 25?
     
  16. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

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    I heard it was Agfa :smile:
     
  17. Petzi

    Petzi Member

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    Makes sense!
     
  18. Amund

    Amund Member

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    :wink:
     
  19. xkaes

    xkaes Member

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    gigabit

    My sensitometric tests show that GIGABIT has the same CI as AGFAPAN 25 -- under my conditions. In short, it works for me. And it's not "just" Copex. I've tried Copex in my Minolta subminis. The color is off and the highlights block up. I have none of that "TECH PAN crap" with GIGABIT. I'd still like to use APX 25 in my 4x5, but that's not an option. I have used Ilford Delta 100 with great results, but GIGABIT can't be beat in my mind. EIGHT foot prints? No problema!
     
  20. edz

    edz Member

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    Joe, it is Copex.

    What developer? That's the key. Developing microfilm (or Technical Pan for that matter) for pictorial applications is non-trivial. These films were designed for high contrast, high resolution applications and so contrast is quite difficult to tame and getting the tonality right is hard.

    There are loads of approaches to tacking microfilm. A popular approach was Marilyn Levy's POTA (which form, I think, the basis for Technidol) but in the 1950s there were other approaches published by Agfa (!) including even dilute Rodinal. Remember H&W Control? The film too was Copex.. and David Foy has updated the formula (using the expired patents as guide) for his Bluefire Police (the microfilm is a Copex albeit NOT the Copex Rapid).. and then there is Gigabit.. and SPUR Nanospeed (SPUR has other developers for other microfilms including Kodak Imagelink)..
     
  21. Soeren

    Soeren Member

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    Better get you guys back on thread :smile:
    What would you recommend ?
    Søren
     
  22. xkaes

    xkaes Member

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    Back on thread

    Soren,

    Sorry that others want to get off thread. As I said before, I'd recommend GIGABIT. See my earlier post with details. As an APX 25 lover, it's the closest I ever found -- and I've tried a lot. If that is not an option for you, try Ilford Delta 100.
     
  23. Soeren

    Soeren Member

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    VidJa.
    I have tried Efke 25, Pan F and Delta 100 in 120 format and I like them. EFKE 25 and Delta 100 are very different in look to me. Since I have never tried APX 25 I can't comment the the replacement issue. Try out a couple and decide from your tests.
    Cheers Søren