Replacement for Kodak HIE

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Mike Kennedy, Feb 10, 2008.

  1. Mike Kennedy

    Mike Kennedy Member

    Messages:
    1,595
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Location:
    Eastern Cana
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Now that HIE is no longer being manufactured I am searching for a replacement that will give me similar results.This "new" film must be priced within my meager budget and fairly close to my location (eastern Canada).

    Thanks
     
  2. Terence

    Terence Member

    Messages:
    1,346
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Location:
    NYC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    There is nothing similar. All of the available infrared films have much less sensitivity to infrared, and I'm pretty sure all have an anti-halation layer.

    That said, I really like the Efke IR film with an infrared filter (#25 red filter will not give much of an IR look, if at all).
     
  3. Aurelien

    Aurelien Advertiser Advertiser

    Messages:
    669
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Location:
    Limoges, Fra
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    I am not sure that efke IR has an anti halation layer. I think not. Results seem to be very special, but you have to try it (so do I). My problem with Efke is their quality control: their films have scratches and pinholes. That's a pity, cause otherwise, their are pretty good as very old fashion films.
     
  4. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    7,075
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Location:
    Basin and Range Province
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I don't want to get in a big debate, but merely point out that many of the "quality control" issues concerning Efke, are actually attributable to improper handling during processing. Efke films have an exceptionally soft emulsion when wet, and are easily damaged and abraded by less than careful handling, sediment abrasion, etc. I'm not saying they have never had a bad batch, just that in my experience with the film, most of my "issues" turned out to be happening on my end of things. Once I began to understand the special nature of this film, they cleared up.
     
  5. maxbloom

    maxbloom Member

    Messages:
    187
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The only "substitute" was Maco Aura, which lacked the AH layer, and is also discontinued. My shop back home has one 4x5 box left...ringing in at about $80 USD IIRC.
     
  6. Schafphoto

    Schafphoto Member

    Messages:
    25
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2007
    Location:
    Ventura, Cal
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Efke may look the same but it doesn't SHOOT the same...

    The Efke 820c in 35mm and 120 gives a remarkably similar IR effect to Kodak's HIE when shot through an 092 or 072 infrared cut-off filter. Even though it has an anti-halation layer, the highlights halate and glow just like HIE when I've tested the film. The film is most dissimilar to HIE in it's sensitivity and speed. A red filter is mostly useless, and does not enhance the IR effect. The Efke 820c speed is very slow, ASA 1 (4 seconds at f8 in sunlight) in the same developer I was using for HIE to get ASA 40. So, no looking through the lens and handholding without a tripod. I have side-by-side tests on my Flickr page if you want to see the difference.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/schafphoto/
     
  7. msuchan

    msuchan Member

    Messages:
    31
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I was just wondering if anyone has heard of some other company coming up with a new high speed infrared film. I was just getting into trying HIE when it was pulled. I will be trying some of the Efke film this spring since I really like the IR effect. The low ASA doesn't bother me but it would be good to have another available film.
     
  8. thefizz

    thefizz Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,130
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Location:
    Trim, Ireland
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I have to agree on the Efke quality control issues. I like this film a lot but I have had a great deal of scratches and holes on many rolls. I take great care when handling this film and I have never had these problems with any other films I have used.
     
  9. nworth

    nworth Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,191
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Location:
    Los Alamos,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Kodak HIE was unique in that it responded to IR all the way out to 1050nm. The other so-called IR films cut off before 900nm. That can make a big difference in the rendition of the scenes (the "IR effect").
     
  10. Ross Chambers

    Ross Chambers Member

    Messages:
    703
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Location:
    Blue Mountai
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    This is what my supplier suggests in a newsletter today, I have no experience nor opinion and the prices are Australian Dollars:


    <<Not all is lost though as there is a saviour.
    Maco Rollei makes a superb IR film to match Kodak HIE



    With an unfiltered speed of 400 ISO and a sensitivity of 820nm it is almost the direct equivalent.
    This film is a high contrast, fine grain emulsion with excellent tonal range, and a resolving power of 160 Lp/mm.
    In addition it is ideal for scanning.
    Special halation effects are possible (the AURA effect) by using longer exposures.


    Maco Rollei Infrared 35mm 36exp AUD Inc. Tax: $13.20
    Maco Rollei Infrared 35mm 30m AUD Inc. Tax: $99.00
    Maco Rollei Infrared 120m AUD Inc. Tax: $14.30
    Maco -IR 820c 4x5 25sheet AUD Inc. Tax:$132.00>>
     
  11. Stephen Frizza

    Stephen Frizza Member

    Messages:
    1,438
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    HIE was HIE it was in a league of its own :-(
     
  12. thefizz

    thefizz Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,130
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Location:
    Trim, Ireland
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Sorry Ross but the Rollei film is nothing like HIE, nice film but very different.
     
  13. JohnArs

    JohnArs Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,075
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    HIE was the only really IR film the others are only get almost to the IR regions!

    So fill up your freezer with HIE!

    Armin J. Seeholzer
     
  14. donbga

    donbga Member

    Messages:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    Currently there is no replacement for this film just as there never has been a replacement for HIE's sister film 2475 High Speed Recording film.
     
  15. John Shriver

    John Shriver Member

    Messages:
    447
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Kodak was the only folks to make the sensitizing dyes for such extreme IR response. Not sure if it's patent protected, or trade secret protected. Probably some pretty intense organic chemistry to make it.
     
  16. Domin

    Domin Member

    Messages:
    204
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2006
    Location:
    Warszawa, Po
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Kodak ceintairly wasn't only one to make deep ir emulsion. I have old eastern german ir plates in my fridge. I doubt they still have any ir sensitivity but in their better days they had their max at 850nm. And there were plates with max at 1050nm. So it is rather matter of cost, stability and demand.
     
  17. JohnArs

    JohnArs Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,075
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If something is needed for war its there in no time, as all the diferent IR film shows which were around 2 world war!
    If art need something nobody really cares its not the big money comes from!!!!
    Its just a mad fact of this crazy world, Armin
     
  18. AgX

    AgX Member

    Messages:
    11,958
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format

    Look into the history, there have been several emulsions going even further into the IR-spectrum.

    There is somehow the belief around that HIE was the sole `real´ IR-film. Yes, unique (as most films are...) but not sole.
     
  19. whitecat

    whitecat Member

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Location:
    Chicago, Il
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Found a store that still has fresh Kodak Infrared. I bought 20 rolls and I think they might have 12-15 left.