Replacing rivets in old folder cameras?

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Murray@uptowngallery, May 13, 2005.

  1. Murray@uptowngallery

    Murray@uptowngallery Member

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    Does anyone have a bright idea regarding where to get replacement rivets or alternative methods for replacing missing or damaged rivets on old folding cameras?

    Thanks

    Murray
     
  2. medform-norm

    medform-norm Member

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    Duh...general hardwarestore? You need a 'rivet gun' to go with it - if that is what they're called. Years age we got a nice rivet set complete with gun from a shop where they sell things like buttons, sowing yarn, millinary stuff, needles, thimbles etc. (I don't know the name of that either, in our language it's a fournituren winkel). So it shouldn't be too hard, I s'pose
     
  3. gma

    gma Member

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    I think all camera rivets are way too small to replace with rivets available in a hardware store. I suggest that you check a hobby shop with a good selection of model building hardware. I would use a screw of the correct diameter with a locknut and file off the excess length. The repair will be non-destructive and if you ever find a rivet of the correct size you can replace the screw.
     
  4. medform-norm

    medform-norm Member

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    Replacing the rivets with screws would be my preferred option too. But then, maybe not for someone who's doing a restoration in original style down to the nitty gritty details? But yes, a hobby shop's a good place, where they sell model train accessories maybe?
     
  5. Surly

    Surly Member

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    Murray,
    There are different kinds of rivets- there are 'pop' rivets that use a gun type tool and there are hammered rivets. It is almost assured that a folding camera did not have pop rivets. As far as the hammered type there are rivets which you place through a hole and peen the rivet to upset the dia. and clamp the materials (sandwiched) together.
    There are also rivets that you hammer into a blind hole that have sort of a twisted shank. You need to describe the mechanical connection you are trying to repair and I can guide you through it. Including where to buy.
    BTW did you ever run any film through that Argus Matchmatic I sold you? Just curious.
    Good luck - Matt
     
  6. Murray@uptowngallery

    Murray@uptowngallery Member

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    Thanks replies all. Yes, hardware store rivets seem to be in the 'Pop' rivet category, with a lot of 'overhead' space required. They also don't seem to cooperate well with controllign how tight they end up since you squeeze tool until the head 'pops' off.

    Surly, I was just thinking of trying to remember who GAVE me that to give some feedback to. I think you let me have it for postage, so your generosity is again noted :O).

    Firstly, let me respond about the rivet question so I'm on topic!

    Two rivet problems on the current camera at hand: Welta Perle, Gorlitz Trioplan 2.9/7.5cm lens, nice shape other than the following.

    1) In each film spool 'well' are two 'shells' that are riveted top & bottom, not completely tight, so that the shells can rotate on the rivet axes to 'open' for inserting a spool of film. After inserting and loading the film, the shells are rotated maybe 90 degrees (CW and CCW respectively) toward the bellows to 'close'. These shells have the pivot pins for the 120 spools...drive shaft at the winder end. I hope this description makes sense. The rivets should not be jammed tight or the shells can't rotate. It looks like someone removed them on the side where there was a tripod mount. I understand this camera had a 3/8-16 mount, but mine has an unfinished brass 1/4-20? one and suspiciously missing rivets to allow access to the back of the tripod mount... the top of the rivets have to be very close to flush because the camera back closes over them.

    The second problem with this camera looks like there was a rivet and screw for the shutter release linkage arm that ran along the folding bed. There are a couple 90 degree turns between the shutter button and the shutter lever on the shutter itself. Looks like the screw was at the 'drive' end and a 'pivot rivet' was in the center of the arm. It's corroded and in a plastic bag with the removed arm (got it that way). Looks like the rivet had two shaft diameters...maybe a larger one that was captive in the bed/door then a smaller diameter for the linkage arm to slide loosely on. Maybe there was a head on the rivet above the linkage so it didn't slip off the rivet.

    I hope this description is sufficient, because I know I need a lot of details, being mechanically challenged.

    I'll attempt a PM reply on the Argus as it's long-winded (lettered).

    By the way, apparently Argus was a Greek mythological critter or being with 100 eyes.
     
  7. John Koehrer

    John Koehrer Subscriber

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    Murray,
    Trot over to local hobby emporium & pick up some brass rod of the appropriate diameter. Form a head with the correct size beatin' tool, cut to length, & peen into place. I use a hand(jewelers) vise to hold small pieces of wire for this. You could also use a pin vise. It's not always a one shot success, so the vocabulary can add variety to the failures.
     
  8. Murray@uptowngallery

    Murray@uptowngallery Member

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    Thanks, Shaggy, I've been thinking of alternative materials and tools, including a pin vise...the length part is the tough part, nearly negligible as far as I can see, two layers of sheets metal.

    Montgomery, hmmm, west of Aurora if I remember...I was there once about 3 AM, gave someone a ride home, didn't see much of the city in the dark.
     
  9. John Koehrer

    John Koehrer Subscriber

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    Murray,
    Why don't you check with Microtools? They may have some rivets in they're misc. hardware. I had at one time, a catalog from a business in Fl. that had a large variety of small hardware I believe they were "The Small Parts Co" or something similar.
    Another possibility would be a clock repair shop. I know they're hard to find but they may be able to help you along.
    What about straight pins? if the diameter is close enough it would already have a head on it.
    Yep, Montgomery kind of wraps around tthe soutthwest corner of Aurora. Downtown consists of two restaurants, the VFW, beauty shop & chiropractor
     
  10. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    I also need to make some rivets for one of my folders. I just ordered a $2.40 brass wire assortment (for rivets and pins) from Micro-Tools (www.micro-tools.com).

    I also ordered a set which includes: Jewelers Wire Draw Plates, Wire Draw Tool, Vise, Pin Vise and Jewelers Saw from FindingKing on ebay ($68.32 with shipping and insurance).
     
  11. Murray@uptowngallery

    Murray@uptowngallery Member

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    I also bought some brass (rod) because I found sources of 1/16" (.0625") rivets but I need 1 mm (0.040"). Tools sound good...

    Murray
     
  12. Alexander Grillon

    Alexander Grillon Member

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    Any news from rivets replacing problem?
    Is your new hardware working good?
     
  13. Murray@uptowngallery

    Murray@uptowngallery Member

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    I found a link for model train repair from a seller who had various custom tools for sale for riveting like this. He had made custom 'anvils' to fit specific applications and also offered a spring loaded center punch with modified tips to fit the rivets.

    I had one with a ruined tip. I had a machinist at work face off the tip then drill a 1/16" hole a few tens of thousandths of an inch deep.

    I found many other sizes of brass rod & tube from K&S Engineering/Metals, a hobby supplier. They offer most of this material in a 'cut to length' service in the US and Canada, not sure if elsewhere.

    I need to find out if I can special order small length of a couple sizes closer to what I need from them or from a local dealer.

    For a mandrel or anvil (not sure of correct term), I plan to use a cheap set of 'nail sets' which look like punches with countersunk tips, held in a vise.

    What I need to replace is not extremely critical. Two rivets are for a pivoting film spool shell and don't need to be (cannot be, actually) brute-force-tight like rivets for foldign arms, doors, etc. and the other piece was a stepped rivet that the shutter release linkage slides on. I may be able to make something from a piece of rod & tube & epoxy it in.

    I'm wrestling with figuring out checking focus with ground glass and getting the center lens cells loose to clean.

    I hope to finish the rivet mess soon.