Replenishing HC-110

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Mainecoonmaniac, May 30, 2011.

  1. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    I'm having problems finding HC-110 replenisher. Is there a way of mixing the syrupy concentrate for replenishment? Has anybody used Legacy Pro's equivalent of HC-110 and it's replenisher (L-110)? Any info will be helpful.
     
  2. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Kodak no longer makes a replenisher for HC-110 because of lack of sales. Lagacy Pro is not chemicaslly similar to HC-110 and shouldn't be used as a replenisher. Kodak at one time did mention using HC-110 in a self replenihed manner. Check their website.
     
  3. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    Thanks for the tip. I thought you can only use their replenisher to do be job. I'll have to google it.
     
  4. KenR

    KenR Member

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    Why bother? Use it at dilution H (1:63) at twice the times of dilution B. Nothing cheaper, nothing fresher and no bother about replenishment.
     
  5. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    Thanks for the tip. I love the look of highly diluted HC 110. I also like seasoned film developer. I would like to dilute the concentrate so I can replenish dilution B.
     
  6. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    http://www.freestylephoto.biz/10191...lm-Developer-Replenisher-to-Make-1?cat_id=301

    I see no reason why you couldn't use the L110-R replenisher with HC-110.

    The benefits of replenishing is often a more pleasing tonality, differences in grain and sharpness compared to the single shot developers. If you run a lot of film through, it could be worth your while. I see benefits with replenished Xtol that I cannot achieve with Xtol 1:2 (which would be the equivalent strength if undiluted). Highlight tones are more pleasing, the negatives are sharper, and they have finer grain. It comes at a cost of film speed, though, but that's a pill I'm willing to swallow. Incidentally, I have tried the Legacy Pro version of Xtol, and it's completely interchangeable with the original.

    With that said, if you like HC-110 at dilution H then it may not be worth your while to pursue replenishment.
     
  7. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    I repeat my previous comment that the Legacy Pro product is not the same developer/replenisher as HC-110. A quick look at its MSDS will comfirm this. Usingthe Legacy replenisher with HC-110 may produce unexpected or undesirable effects.
     
  8. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    I completely agree

    Thanks for the great info Thomas. I prefer seasoned developer over one shot from my experience of getting better results. I've switched over of XTOL so I can replenish it. I've gone back and printed negs soup in HC-110 and more often than not, like the look better. XTOL seems slightly soft for my taste while the HC-110 negs have a crispness I like. The film I'm using is Arista EDU Ultra 100 and 400. I replenish my XTOL at 70mls per 80 sq inches of material. I also dump out the equivalent amount.

    I've searched the internet to see if anyone has done replenishment for dilution B with the syrupy HC-110 concentrate. So far I've had no luck.
     
  9. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    Have you tried Legacy Pro's L-110 developer and replenisher combo?

    Thanks for the information. I'll probably not try to mix the two developer/replenisher combination. I've been using HC-110 for close to 30 years and I like the look and versatility. Have you tried Legacy Pro's version? Thomas tried the Legacy Pro's version XTOL and he claim it's the same.
     
  10. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Jerry is definitely the better chemist here, so if he says that the L110-R is nothing like the HC-110R, then they probably are not.

    So use the HC-110 for diluted developing, and get both L110 and L110-R to use as replenished. I simply reacted to the text stating that the Legacy Pro products had been formulated almost exactly the same as the Kodak chemistry.
     
  11. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    I too really like HC-110 but have always used it as a one-shot. I have not tried the Legacy Pro version since I have no need for it. They claim that it produces the same results as HC-110 which may be true but chemically they are not the same. Besides the information in the MSDS is Legacy's caveat that their developer is not yellow in color nor does it have the viscosity of HC-110. It is unfortunate that they chose to name it as something it is not. Because of the nature of HC-110 it would be very hard to manufacture without the proper equipment. The HC-110 concentrate contains no water and this is the real give-away. Some of the ingredients are rather esoteric.

    Because Xtol is a rather conventional developer it would be easier to create something very similar.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2011
  12. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    Come to think of it, is quite a unique developer. It keeps forever and even when the syrup turns dark, it still performs the same. Is it a proprietary formula? If it is, will Kodak release it to other manufacturers? Rodinal is still produced even with the demise of Agfa.
     
  13. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Yes it is a proprietary formula and I seriously doubt Kodak would permit anyone else to market it. Yes I know that Kodak chemicals are now manufactured by someone else but they are marketed by Kodak.
     
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  15. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Subscriber

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    The rodinal case is special in that the maker and the owner (AgfaPhoto) were not only spearate, but AgfaPhoto met it's demise. I guess that the maker bid on the rights to the formula, (although not the trademark)

    If Kodak were to stop marketing all chemicals, they might be persuaded to licnece the formula(s) to their chemicals to the firm that is curently making it under contract. Other wise they are unlikely to release the formula and the methods.

    As far as the L110, it is physically different being much easier to measure. it does seem to work the same but I am not a lab bunny so it could be far off and I would not know the difference.
     
  16. GraemeMitchell

    GraemeMitchell Member

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    Kodak is currently recommending replenishing HC-110 w/ itself. I'd an email from them specifying such b/c I'd inquired, but I can't seem to find it right now to share. They're really great about answering these questions if you call or email them.

    I too love HC-110 and think once seasoned it's something really really special.
     
  17. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    Hey thanks for the tip. I do think seasoned HC-110 is special when it's seasoned. Love the look of it with Foma film. I'll email Kodak to find out how to self-replenish. I use dilution "B". If I find out anything, I'll share it on APUG.
     
  18. GraemeMitchell

    GraemeMitchell Member

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    I began w/ the same amounts + dilutions that are specified for use w/ the replenisher in the HC-110 tech pub, and then kept an eye on it, but it was a very close starting point.

    Before asking Kodak for details, I'd originally got the tip to self replenish from Jim at MV labs, so I have to give him credit for it - as far as I'm concerned, no one knows this developer (or BW processing in general) better than he does.
     
  19. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    Sure. I'll give it a try. So basically, treat HC-110 concentrate as HC-110 replenisher?

    Thanks for the tip. Didn't know where to start before.
     
  20. GraemeMitchell

    GraemeMitchell Member

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    Yep, use the developer just like the replenisher.
     
  21. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    I seem to remember reading somewhere at some point that if you start with dilution B, and add 4 mL of HC-110 syrup for every 80 sq-in. of film you process, it is an acceptable way to replenish. I just wish I could find that data sheet.
     
  22. GraemeMitchell

    GraemeMitchell Member

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    I'm actually using dilution E, or whatever the 1+47 one is, and I've found it remarkably stable. But I'd def test, b/c a few people have told me that I'm lucky to get away w/ replenishing dilution E w/o problems.
     
  23. Nicholas Lindan

    Nicholas Lindan Advertiser Advertiser

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    You can get the 'seasoned' developer effect by adding a small amount of P. Bromide (and some say, a minute amount of P. Iodide). Another trick is to add color developer 'starter'.

    When it came to making up a new batch of replenished developer it was common to reserve about 10% of the old tank and add it to the new batch. You might try saving spent 1-shot HC-110 and using it 1:10 in the developer for the next roll.

    Personally, I am a confirmed 1-shot worker - a bit like a teetotaler exclaiming on Islay malts.

    You'll have to google for the rest...
     
  24. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    So, what exactly are the usage pattern? How much do you replenish for each roll? How big is your working solution?
    What specifically do you see as a benefit over single shot HC-110?

    I've always just used the syrup at 1+50, disregarding the various dilutions, but I guess it's close enough to 1+47.

    Thanks,

    - Thomas
     
  25. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    Dilution E can also be made 1:11 stock to water, instead of 1:47 concentrate to water.

    Also, according to Kodak, dilution E can be replenished.
     
  26. GraemeMitchell

    GraemeMitchell Member

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    Thomas, my tank is 3.5 gallons. It sees anywhere from about 25 to 200 rolls a month. But usually around 30 or 40. The tank has sit for 2 weeks w/o use and I've not noticed any ill effects. W/ a floating saran wrap lid on the liquid.

    But mostly, I'm using the normal concentrate as the replenisher just like the tech pub says for dilution E. The replenisher dilution is stronger than the normal. 22ml per roll. DUmp half the tank every few weeks.

    The effects it has on film will depend on the fllm I'd guess...w/ TX400 I think it's really nice. Sharper grain, softer contrast, better highlight separation, 1 stop shadow speed loss. But these are very unscientific observations. My tank began to season quickly. It's easy to run a test w/ a small batch.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2011