Resale value of Fujifilm GF670

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by RattyMouse, Jun 13, 2012.

  1. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,478
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, M
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi All,

    I am struggling with the idea of buying a GF670 so that I can start shooting film again. I am very hesitant because of the totally uncertain nature of film in general. The film market still seems to be in free fall and the long term survival of film is in question. My main interest is in printing and even today, finding a good quality printing service in Shanghai is very difficult. Film seems like not such a good idea.

    Still, my desires are stronger than my reasoning. My one thought is that if I buy a GF670 and it turns out I dont like the experience (due to processing and printing issues), I can just sell the camera. Normally, camera gear holds its value pretty well. I would think that a fine camera like the GF670 in normal times would hold value well. But with film dying off, what would a camera like this be worth 5 years from now? Assuming of course it is in very very good shape.

    I know it is hard to predict such things, if not impossible. I just looking for anyway to go forward to buy this camera and shoot film. My non emotional side says to stay away from this. It is an awful lot of money to spend on such things. How long will Kodak even be around (I want to shoot Kodak color negative film).

    Thanks!
     
  2. revdocjim

    revdocjim Member

    Messages:
    357
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Location:
    Tokyo
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Currently in Tokyo the GF670 sells new for about 170,000 yen to 190,000 yen. And right now Fuji is offering 30,000 cash back so it would be that much cheaper.
    Used the GF670 goes for anywhere between 120,000 and 150,000 depending on the store.

    But as for what it will be worth five years from now that is very hard to say. In the worst case scenario the world of film photography basically dies. In that case the camera is little more than a museum piece. But I find it very hard to believe that will happen. If the film market stays healthy I would think that in five years the camera would still have a value of at least 50% of the new purchase price.

    But if you are really that worried or apprehensive about this investment, why don't you buy an older film camera that costs less. If you are predisposed to a medium format rangefinder I would point out that virtually every MF rangefinder ever produced by Fuji prior to the GF series can be had for less than $500. I recently got the GS645 (the only other folder besides the GF670) for about $300.

    If you want a medium format SLR there are countless options, but the more affordable ones are Mamiya, Bronica and Pentax.

    The GF670 is a fabulous camera but also one of the more expensive options.
     
  3. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,478
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, M
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for your reply. I'm afraid that the GF670 is my only realistic option. I dont want to go with used gear and I need something really light for travel. The GF670 is really perfect for this. I just dont know how much of a future I can have with it. I could put this money towards my other gear which I know would last a very long time.

    Thanks again.
     
  4. revdocjim

    revdocjim Member

    Messages:
    357
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Location:
    Tokyo
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Well, I recently bought the GF670 so I guess that shows where I stand!:smile:
     
  5. filmamigo

    filmamigo Member

    Messages:
    262
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Location:
    Toronto, Ont
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I sympathize. It's only when buying a camera that I wonder about the availability of film.

    I have come to the considered opinion that black & white film will be around essentially forever (or a good 100 years.) The already rationalized market, the smallscale production of the film, the value ascribed by the art market, all make black and white a viable fine-art medium.

    Colour film is a bigger question. At some point mega-companies like Fuji and Kodak may not be able to make the numbers work, and could smaller firms step in? Is there an inherent market like black and white? Tough to say.

    I've decided that (though I do shoot colour) having black and white film to shoot in my cameras is enough. So I continue to add cameras to my collection, and for now I enjoy shooting colour and black + white.
     
  6. Perry Way

    Perry Way Member

    Messages:
    825
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Location:
    San Luis Obi
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I asked the same question. I answered it initially by buying a GA645 and having a go with it. I love it so much I may not get the GF670 as I am in the midst of replacing all my backpacking/trekking gear by acquiring ultralight and superlight trail gear. When I'm fully set up with that, I may return and buy the GF670 but until then I am very very pleased with the results of the GA645 and for a fraction of the price. Same weight, maybe an ounce or two lighter.
     
  7. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,478
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, M
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I had the GA645 back when it first came out. Wonderful camera. But back then I was infatuated with larger negatives and went with the GSW690. Those were the days.
     
  8. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

    Messages:
    9,441
    Joined:
    May 24, 2005
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You need to think about not the resale value in five years, but the amount of use you would get out of the camera during your ownership of it. How much would you pay for cable TV? Internet access? Movies? DVDs? If you think about your budget for other non-essential entertainment options every month, and the value-to-you of that entertainment, would you derive more than 50% of the camera's cost in entertainment value to yourself during the time of ownership? If the answer is yes, then just buy the camera and quit whining about film MAYBE becoming obsolete. If I were worried about film becoming obsolete, I would never have bought a (second-hand) 14x17 field camera. Which is a MUCH bigger investment than a Fuji GF670. I'll sell it and quit using it when I can't afford to buy the film for it anymore, but I'm not worried about that long-term either.
     
  9. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

    Messages:
    9,083
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Ten years ago, people were predicting that film only had a couple of years left.

    If you want it, buy it!


    Steve.
     
  10. segedi

    segedi Member

    Messages:
    355
    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Location:
    Calgary, Alb
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    In the last 3 years I've purchased 8 film cameras and won't even tell you how much I spent... I don't see film going away soon, nor processing/printing - but in 5-10 years, i might have to send more things (color) away to labs via mail. I already have to do that with slide film over 35mm. I've bought a lot of film and with my frequency of shooting, I have 4 - 5 years worth.

    And I'm not sure if you've thought of the flip side. Say you put $1700 towards a digital camera. Any guess how much it would be worth in 5 years! I think the GF670 will be a much better investment. Stop agonizing and fill your immediate need.
     
  11. andrew.roos

    andrew.roos Member

    Messages:
    568
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Location:
    Durban, Sout
    Shooter:
    35mm
    In 5 years the GF670 will be worth considerably more than any digicam you buy today for the same price. I can't speak for Kodak but pretty sure that at least the small vol film manufacturers like Ilford will still be here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2012
  12. Argenticien

    Argenticien Member

    Messages:
    98
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC, USA
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I would not have the sales skills to organize this, but it seems like if the last film manufacturer were about to snuff it, someone could take up a subscription among film camera users to recapitalize the company and keep it operating, albeit on a small scale with very few emulsions. In other words, sell stock the old-fashioned way: go round offering it to a specifically selected audience of people with an interest in the industry. There are many people out there who have user (non-museum-piece) camera gear worth thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars/euros/pounds or millions of yen (etc.). If film disappears, that gear instantaneously becomes worthless paper-weights, boat-anchors, and door-stops. Would it not be more economically rational for such a person (and you'd be one, if you had a $2000 GF670) to ante up, say, some hundreds of dollars to help salvage The Last Film Company, than to lose their entire equipment investment for lack of film? We hold the solution to the problem ourselves, if it comes to that.

    Not being stroppy here. Please do poke holes in that plan if merited! (Other than the obvious one, "it'll never come to that!" I already agree.)

    --Dave
     
  13. thegman

    thegman Member

    Messages:
    623
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I think film has a decent future, apparently Kodak does something like $2bn of film a year, and Fujifilm about $450m. Fujifilm say sales of Velvia are going *up*, and Kodak says they have have had a bit of a resurgence too. In the event that film does die off, it won't be overnight, and you'll see it coming years in advance.

    Also, B&W film is a far smaller investment to produce, and Foma and the like could continue longer than the big players. Lots of people only shoot B&W, so there will still be a market to sell your cameras to those people.

    And lets say in 5 years time, you need to sell you camera, it'll still be worth *something* and it's entirely possible your own financial situation will have changed so that the cost to you is less significant.

    I used to worry about this sort of thing too, but it's easier if you accept that nothing lasts forever, and all you can do is enjoy the present. You cannot predict the future, nobody can. Who'd have predicted after LPs were replaced for many people by cassettes, then CDs, then MP3s, they still sell just fine in their own niche?

    It's a big world, if 99.99% if people shoot digital, and only 0.001% shoot film, it's still quite a big market for someone to profit from.
     
  14. Araakii

    Araakii Member

    Messages:
    107
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Film will always be around.
     
  15. Araakii

    Araakii Member

    Messages:
    107
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    But if you always think about the resale value, you won't enjoy shooting at all.
     
  16. Perry Way

    Perry Way Member

    Messages:
    825
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Location:
    San Luis Obi
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    In my case the GA645 has come in handy for my hiking/trekking trips and recently (this last weekend) I used it for taking 90% of the wedding I shot as it shines in action scenes where timing is crucial and you only get one chance for the shot and it must count.

    Given the quality of films available, I've found one does not need to bump up to a larger format if you take most if not all of your shots with full-frame (no cropping) considered. Why I say it that way is because I have gotten sharper images from 6x45 using the Fuji GA645 than I got from 6x9 on several other cameras I own. In addition, it's easily less than 1/4 the weight of my Mamiya RB67 Pro S, and no heavier than a light 35mm SLR or DSLR and yet you can easily enlarge to 16x20 without losing image or tonal sharpness. With TMax 100, Delta 100, FP4+ and HP5+ I get nearly grainless enlargements, razor sharp to 16x20. Probably larger is possible but I don't have the means to print larger than 16x20 at the moment....

    I would strongly urge the OP to consider having a go with the GA645 like I did and then after 10 or 20 rolls see how you feel.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2012
  17. AlbertZeroK

    AlbertZeroK Member

    Messages:
    540
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Location:
    Central Virg
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    So true. The only thing i do not like about the gf670 is no winding lever and tht keeps me in a mamiya 7. But fuji makes a fine product as i have both ab xpan and g617.

    Resale value is debatable. If you want more money you need to sit on things, i prefer to dump stuff cheap to get it out f my bag. Yes i loose money, but if i do not use it, i prefer giving it to a photographer who will a and take my loss.
     
  18. HowardDvorin

    HowardDvorin Member

    Messages:
    192
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Mt. Laurel N
    Shooter:
    35mm
    The future is very unpredicable.

    It is wise to enjoy the present.
     
  19. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,531
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Location:
    U.K.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If you need to worry about the future availability of Kodak film and the resale value of the camera don't buy it, because you'll spend too much time worrying about your investment to enjoy it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2012
  20. baachitraka

    baachitraka Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,311
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Location:
    Bremen, Germany.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Prepare yourself what you want to shoot in four seasons in a year within your country. Next travel to your neighbouring countries, explore and take photographs. In few years will have a prints that are worthy than any other considerations you have here.

    Good luck.