residue on Negatives

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Jordan.K, Nov 16, 2007.

  1. Jordan.K

    Jordan.K Subscriber

    Messages:
    259
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I am always getting some sort of scum or deposits on my negatives (Tri-X 8x10) after they dry. I use photo flo and dilute it out as I know this helps, but still always some crap on my negs. It is a white caked deposit of sorts. It seems never to affect printing but it bugs me. Could these deposits eat away at the film over time? How do I remove them? Thanks in advance.

    Jordan
     
  2. dslater

    dslater Member

    Messages:
    732
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Location:
    Hollis, NH
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I wonder if it's mineral deposits - do you mix your photo-flo with distilled water?
     
  3. Jordan.K

    Jordan.K Subscriber

    Messages:
    259
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I'm pretty sure it is mineral deposits. I have not used distilled water till now, but have already washed this whole batch. How can remove these deposits?
     
  4. dslater

    dslater Member

    Messages:
    732
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Location:
    Hollis, NH
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Not really sure how to remove them once they're there - maybe PE has a suggestion. The first thing I'd try is re-washing them in distilled water.
     
  5. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

    Messages:
    1,203
    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I'm certainly no expert and am getting these occasionally myself, usually on the emulsion side - I see them but they dont turn up in contact printing - odd, I mean being opaque they must right ? but they dont, noticeably enough in any case ...

    On a neg that was ruined for other reasons I tried using a microfibre cloth on them to see if they would remove without scratching - I got almost all off apart from a leftover ring which to remove by forced rubbing did crimple the neg ...

    Rewashing doesn't help - ah well, I'm trying both hardener and a new brand of photo-flo soon - see if that helps :wink:
     
  6. Akki14

    Akki14 Member

    Messages:
    1,873
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Location:
    London, UK
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I use a very lightly damp piece of tissue to wipe off drying marks if they're on the NON-emulsion side. I don't tend to get weird marks on the emulsion side.
     
  7. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Member

    Messages:
    3,894
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Location:
    Middle Engla
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    If they are mineral deposits, and that seems most likely, then using distilled water for your final rinse (with or without photoflow) should mitigate the problem.
     
  8. Trevor Crone

    Trevor Crone Member

    Messages:
    547
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Location:
    SE.London
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    As Dave and others have already said use distilled or de-ionised water as a final rinse will almost certainly solve the problem.

    To remove the stubbon mineral deposits I've resoaked negatives in a standard acid stop bath this will dissolve the calcium deposits found particularly in hard water areas. Just rewash as normal no need to fix.

    An excellent wetting agent a friend gave me the 'heads-up' on is Rollei's RWA super concentrate wetting agent. I found I no longer have to use distilled water or squeegee my films. I just hang them up to dry naturally and they dry beautifully clean and clear.
     
  9. Justin Cormack

    Justin Cormack Member

    Messages:
    181
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Location:
    London
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I never found photo-flo worked enough (London is a hardwater area). Using deionised water for the last rinse is fine though, and I can buy it easily down the road (sold for car batteries). Stop bath ought to remove them, but prevention is better than cure.
     
  10. Joe VanCleave

    Joe VanCleave Member

    Messages:
    613
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    Albuquerque,
    Shooter:
    Pinhole
    I have had issues in the past with both water marks and dust/debris, or some residue, on my dried film. I process both rollfilm and sheet film. I don't have a bona fide film drying cabinet, however, and my darkroom is located in a corner of my otherwise dusty/much used garage.

    What I've found that consistently works for me is I transfer the rinsed film in a closed container (plastic 'tupperware'-type with lid, for sheet film, or the developing tank for rollfilm) from the darkroom to my small bathroom. The bathroom is prepped before hand by removing all towels and throw rugs (it has ceramic tile on floors and halfway up the walls), and then I run the hot water in the shower for several minutes. I set up a metal curtain rod in the shower, dedicated for this purpose, along with metal bulldog clips, with metal hangar wires, that are also dedicated for this purpose.

    Once in the enclosed bathroom, I mix DI water, 91% IPA (isopropyl alcohol, not India Pale Ale; that's for later) and one or two drops of Photoflow. I mix it gentle but well (to avoid sudsing), then each sheet of film is repeatedly dunked and allowed to drain off, several times, before hanging in the shower. For rollfilm I repeatedly dunk the film reel (gently to prevents sudsing of the Photoflo), and gently pull the film off the reel, squeegy with two fingers of my prewetted hand, and hang got dry with a counterweight on the bottom of the roll to permit it to drain properly. Then close the shower door to minimize intrusion of air. For sheet film I also place the tupperware dish of IPA/DI on the floor of the shower stall, below the film, with the idea that the IPA vapors from the liquid will contribute to the drying effect by scavenging additional moisture from the surface of the film. If I had a dedicated film drying cabinet I would do this there.

    I keep this bathroom closed up for several hours, with the bright lights on to add a bit of heat without stirring up the air.
     
  11. herb

    herb Member

    Messages:
    376
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    residue on negs

    Although our local water is not too bad, I have always use a 1 micron filter, made by GE that supplies the darkroom, and another in the kitchen for drinking water.
    I have a friend who is an environmental engineer, and he said the most dangerous health issue in the local environment was city water, in his opinion.

    The 1 micron filter takes out chlorine and all manner of stuff, so I never have to mess with distilled or de ionized. The housings are plastic, cost about $60, and the cartridges, which last six months or more, are about $30.

    When I change cartridges, you would not believe what is trapped, so I am happy with the solution.
     
  12. seawolf66

    seawolf66 Member

    Messages:
    169
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2006
    Location:
    outside bost
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Put the negative back in a water bath , and change the water a couple of times should solve your problem:
     
  13. Jordan.K

    Jordan.K Subscriber

    Messages:
    259
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    So I tried rewashing the negatives today using the regular film washer for 20min. and then into some distilled water with photoflo and alcohol..... no change. The negs that had the mineral deposits still have the mineral deposits. Will these mineral deposits eat away at the emulsion over time????? This is driving me nuts. Thanks.

    Jordan
     
  14. Kilgallb

    Kilgallb Subscriber

    Messages:
    324
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Location:
    Calgary AB C
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    We have real hard water in Calgary. I found the only way to avoid deposits is to use double strength hypo clear. After washing rinse the negative in distilled water and a weak solution of photo-flo. Emphasis on weak.

    The weird thing is I found Ilford film (Delta 100 4x5) was way more problematic than Kodak TMX 100.
     
  15. Trevor Crone

    Trevor Crone Member

    Messages:
    547
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Location:
    SE.London
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The deposits should not harm your negatives. The safest way to remove them as I said in my previous post is to resoak them in distilled water then soak them in an acid stop bath for a minute or so. Rewash as normal then a final rinse in distilled or deionised water before hanging them to dry in a dust free environment.

    Regards,
    Trevor.
     
  16. Jordan.K

    Jordan.K Subscriber

    Messages:
    259
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Could it be the gloves I use sometimes leave this residue????? They are white non-latex gloves........ The stuff that is on the negs already simply won't come off. It is a white practically transparent residue. Sometimes it happens other times it doesn't. I can't think of any variables between the times it does and the times it doesn't. Still perplexed and annoyed.
     
  17. mikeb380

    mikeb380 Member

    Messages:
    20
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Joe, a substitute for a drying cabinet would be one of those transparent plastic containers women use to store their dresses. They are large enough to have two lines across to hang film and it would be much easier to keep clean. Lots less than a drying cabinet also. After use you could zip up and fold to store it. Probably get a couple of them for less than $20 US.

    Michael :smile:
     
  18. dim

    dim Member

    Messages:
    57
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Location:
    Athens, Gree
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Jordan i had the same problem.

    I've ask a pro-photographer and told me to fill a tray with distilled water add some photo-flo, soak the film strip for a minute and then gently remove the stains with my fingertips, wear no gloves. Then hang them to dry in a dust free area. Remember to wash your hands quickly to avoid any harm on your fingertips from the chems.

    It worked for me,
    Dimitris.
     
  19. Woolliscroft

    Woolliscroft Member

    Messages:
    726
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I find I don't have to get distilled water to avoid these sorts of deposits. Just get a normal domestic water filter, like a Brita, which will remove lime etc and run the final rinse water through it twice.

    David.