rodinal equivalent

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Deniz, Aug 28, 2004.

  1. Deniz

    Deniz Member

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    with the fears of Rodinal being gone forever, i need an alternative to it.

    I am looking for a developer that will;
    -give amazing sharpness
    -easy to mix(easy as rodinal+ water)
    -will last loooong like rodinal

    I need your suggestions..

    thank you
     
  2. photomc

    photomc Member

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    Deinz, don't think you need to worry about Rodinal - PF has a kit you can mix and JandC carries R09, which is suppose to be the original Rodinal. For the record, have not used either one as yet, but plan to in the future - may place on order for film and R09 soon. Will post my findings when I do.

    BTW, there are several different formulas for Rodinal on the net, plus published in many books.
     
  3. Deniz

    Deniz Member

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    well then let me add this to my post.. i need something that i can buy off a local photo store.. i wont be ordering chemicals off internet.
     
  4. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council Council

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    Anchell's Darkroom Cookbook lists a formula under High Definition Developers - Enhanced Acutance, #35: Rodinal-type Developer.

    The use of p-Aminiophenol hydrochloride which is mandatory will produce a gas that is either lethal or at best nauseating. It may be best compounded out of doors with your back to the wind -- but not in my neighborhood.

    Lets hope some other brave soul will continue manufacturing Rodinal.
     
  5. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Deniz, given this constraint, IMHO the best thing for you to do is buy a big jug of Rodinal from your local photo store (it may need to be special ordered).

    Rodinal keeps for a very long time. Against the eventuality that Agfa will stop making/marketing the stuff (Agfa have been theatening this for at least 20 years), try establishing a friendly relationship with a local chemist.
     
  6. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    What gas is that? I don't recall seeing any effervescence when I mixed the components. If you mean HCl, I don't think it has a chance to get out of the solution before it turns to KCl and H2O.

    So it's alright for this brave soul to polute the rest of the world, just as long as its not my part of the world?
     
  7. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    Since you wish to avoid ordering over the internet, Photographers Formulary phone numbers are 1 (800) 922-5255 or 1 (406) 754-2891 ; and being as they are in nearby Montana (only a few mountains between ;-) & trend of local photo stores going digi, they may become your closest darkroom chemical supplier. I have used their kit for Rodinal & seems fine.
     
  8. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council Council

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bruce (Camclicker)
    Anchell's Darkroom Cookbook lists a formula under High Definition Developers - Enhanced Acutance, #35: Rodinal-type Developer.

    The use of p-Aminiophenol hydrochloride which is mandatory will produce a gas that is either lethal or at best nauseating. It may be best compounded out of doors with your back to the wind -- but not in my neighborhood.

    Lets hope some other brave soul will continue manufacturing Rodinal.


    You got it!

    I mistakenly ascribed the terms lethal & nauseating to the inclusion of p-Aminiophenol hydrochloride. This was clumsy and in error. The correct component is Sodium hydroxide. Further, I referred to the offense byproduct as a gas when perhaps it would have been correct to use the word vapor.

    I've used Sodium hydroxide and can assure you it is both lethal and nauseating if inhaled. I have inhaled the vapor and said out loud "I'm gonna die using this stuff." I didn't die but I did become nauseated. I am convinced a second inhalation would produce death on the spot.

    And then there's that caustic warning.
     
  9. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    I guess I'll have to try it again. Aside from the fact that the hydroxide in Rodinal is potassium, which is just as nasty as the sodium, it is nearly neutralized in Rodinal by the bisulfite and the HCl. Certainly the solution heats up while dissolving the hydroxide, but it's not so bad if you use ice cold distilled water as the solvent, and add the hydroxide slowly so as to avoid localized boiling. I've never heard of a concentrated solution of sodium or potassium hydroxide being volatile at room temperature, but reaction with some impurities in the water, or heat of solution might produce some undesirable results. Always add the caustic to the water, and slowly. Lye has been used as drain cleaner for as long as we have had drains to clog.
     
  10. 127

    127 Member

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    I recently got a bottle of R09 to try. It's made be Calbe who hopefully aint going anywhere.

    I've used it with Efke 100 (40:1 13mins agitate every 30s), and REALLY like it. I'm not planning to use anything else anytime soon.

    Ian
     
  11. noseoil

    noseoil Member

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    Deniz, you might give PMK pyro a try if you are planning on doing enlarging. It is inexpensive (a roll of 35mm costs 12 cents US to develop), lasts a long time on the shelf and is a one shot developer so it is always fresh. If it is for your 8X10 and contact printing, then pyrocat-hd would be a good choice as it has shadow detail which won't look as murky as PMK. See some of Francesco's prints in the gallery for an example of what is possible with 8x10 and contact printing.

    There are lots of good developers out there and the Darkroom Cookbook would be a good place to start. I had no intention of mixing my own chemistry, but after seeing how easy (and cheap) it is, I'm glad I did. Bulk chemicals are very inexpensive to use. If nothing else, buy the chemiclas and mix them up at your lab in school. That way you only need to pay for chemicals, which are very cheap and last a long time.
     
  12. dr bob

    dr bob Member

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    O.K. people. I’ve used concentrated KOH (50%) and solid to make electrolyte for (et c.) and can assure you that it is NOT toxic unless ingested. I have been virtually swimming in the stuff without permanent effects. There are problems and hazards associated with its use.

    Mixing materials can create a mist (particulate, not vapor) which, if inhaled, can cause serious nose, throat, and lung irritation. It is a choking experience that can leave one dissipated and with serious after effects such as pneumonia. USE BREATHING PROTECTION! Those stupid painting masks sold in hardware stores will help but one would do well to invest in a better one for many applications.

    Caustic spray in the eyes is really miserable and can cause serious permanent damage. NEVER handle caustic(s) without eye protection. Again, those cheap goggles sold in hardware’s will suffice.

    If one is exposed to a spill, get water onto the effected areas ASAP. Remove clothing and get into a shower quickly. Conc. Caustic will dissolve hair – quickly (I know). Vinegar will neutralize caustic. We used good ol’ dilute boric acid in buckets for this purpose and they were used regularly mainly on hands.

    Lastly, I would advise care in handling any and all chemicals. One never knows when a misstep will occur (Murphy’s Law) but as far as KOH, NaOH, NaCO3, et c. are concerned, there is no real environmental hazard as the stuff will quickly break down in nature into benign materials.
     
  13. Eric Rose

    Eric Rose Subscriber

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    my vote goes to HC110
     
  14. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council Council

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    Thank you Dr. Bob.
     
  15. Deniz

    Deniz Member

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    I was starting to think the exact same one!!

    I will buy a bottle and give it a try..
     
  16. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    That's certainly a Rodinal equivalent - Calbe uses the original Rodinal formula to make their R09!
     
  17. garysamson

    garysamson Subscriber

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    Rodinal substitute

    I have been using R09 purchased from JandC to process Kodak Tmax 100 with great results. The sharpness and tonal range you are used to getting with Rodinal will be found when using R09.
    Gary
     
  18. Deniz

    Deniz Member

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    My Local photo store has 20 bottles of 125ml and they ordered 4 500ml bottles for me.. so i guess i am safe on the developer side for a while :smile:
     
  19. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    HC110 is a pretty good choice, but not a dead ringer for Rodinal. You can mix 1 part of it with 3 parts of propylene glycol to make a thinner stock solution with the keeping qualities of the concentrate. This is handy when you deal with small amounts of highly dilute working solution. You can also mix 32 grams of ascorbic or erythorbic acid in 750 ml of triethanolamine and add 250 ml of HC110 concentrate to get a concentrate that is pretty strong when diluted 1+50.
     
  20. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    Yes, and most of us have eaten NaOH too..... Laugenbretzeln (bretzeln, pretzels) anyone?

     
  21. modafoto

    modafoto Subscriber

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    I use HC110 for alot of work with film of ISO 400 and up. Nice tones.
    I overdevelop 10% to get a bit more contrast.

    Morten