Rodnial 1+100 and what minimal agitation i can get away with

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Domin, May 6, 2009.

  1. Domin

    Domin Member

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    I used to stand develop some films in Rodinal 1+100, 1h, ~20C with no agitation whatsoever. I used to work but than something obviously changed and after some point it didn't work any more - I lost a few nice shots to uneven development i.e one side of film was quite underdeveloped.

    This weekend I've tried semi stand with about 5 gentle inversions at the begining and at 30min. Development is even however the FP4 @125 are obviously denser than I was used to and expected. I didn't have time to print contact proofs yet so I cant say if I'm happy with tones and grain.

    What is minimal agitation while developing semi stand I can get away with? Or should I rather shorten time?
     
  2. david b

    david b Member

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    I used 1+100 with Agfa APX 100 and never went longer than 22 minutes with it. I would agitate the first minute and then 3 inversions every 5 minutes after that.
     
  3. rwyoung

    rwyoung Member

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    Recently did Arista Premium 400 (Tri-X?) shot in a toy camera so no real control over exposure.

    Rodinal 1+100 1 hr.

    1) presoak for 3 minutes (might have been more as I was mixing up the Rodinal and fixer during this time) -- distilled water
    2) Rodinal 1+100 1Hr with 10 sec agitation at beginning and again at 20min and 40min -- mixed with distilled water
    3) water bath stop -- tap water for two fill-and-dump followed by one of distilled water
    4) TF4 6 minutes -- mixed with distilled water
    5) "Ilford" wash -- tap water
    6) final "anti-spot" soak in distilled water for a few minutes. I've had better luck with this step than using the no-spot additives. YMMV.

    Seem to be a little on the dense side but this was an uncontrolled test as I was just wanting to get something printable from mixed lighting conditions. Little toy camera only has one shutter speed, maybe around 1/100th of a second. In the past however I have had good luck with getting printable (not perfect) negatives from ERA (4x5 sheet film rated at 80), Foma (Arista Edu.Ultra) 100 and 400, Ilford FP4+ and HP5+ and maybe a few others I can't remember. I've pretty much reserved the use of Rodinal and stand developing for pinhole and toy camera work. I'm assured of getting an image but oftentimes don't have the exposure times (lack of control or extrapolating far off the reciprocity chart) nailed down.
     
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  4. frotog

    frotog Member

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    I use one very gentle agitation, a couple taps on the wall of the tank to dislodge any bubbles and then into a holding bath for one hour. Works like a charm.

    ps... I make sure to rodinal is mixed into solution, use distilled water and a nice long pre-wash (at least 5').
     
  5. Lee L

    Lee L Member

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    I've found that stand with Rodinal can be unpredictable with inversions at longer than 5-10 minutes, and all the variables (film, temp, dilution) with longer times are difficult to account for. I've settled on 5-6 minutes maximum time without agitation as david b suggests. A friend who's done a lot more testing over time than I indicates that he gets the useful speed increase, edge enhancement, and highlight control of stand with shorter times and consistently even development using 5 minute agitation intervals. He's posted this elsewhere in the numerous APUG threads on stand development. This is an 80% reduction over 1 minute agitation intervals.

    With Agfa APX films, I've had even and uneven development on 120 rolls using Rodinal stand in the same tank. Sometimes the uneven development
    streaking even appears to be related to the distribution of negative densities, and is different on different frames on the same roll.

    I've been using reduced agitation at 5-6 minute intervals with a dozen or more developer/film combinations in the last 4 years, and not had a single problem with uneven development. That includes Ilfosol, DDX, D-76, Edwal 12, Rodinal, D-23, Prescysol EF, Amoloco 74, and others across a variety of films in 35mm, 120, and 4x5.

    Lee
     
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  6. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    This sounds like your reels had a bit of a build up of photoflow or some other wetting agent on them. PhotoEngineer has talked about this if you do a search. All the best. Shawn
     
  7. r-brian

    r-brian Member

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    The only stand developing I've done with Rodinal was at 1+200 for 1 hour with 2 gentle inversions at 30 minutes. This was with Fuji Acros. My standard development for Acros is Rodinal 1+100 for 18 minutes, 20C, gentle agitation every minute for the first half of development time, then every 2 minutes after that. Helps to control the highlights here in the contrasty conditions of New Mexico.
     
  8. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Thanks for the excellent advice, Lee. I know we can trust your findings.

    I had problems with uneven development using Rodinal a good while back, and moving to 5 minute agitation intervals did indeed give me the added benefits of reduced agitation in the same manner as outright standing development did, but without the uneven development. A much safer and reliable method.

    To OP: If your negs are too dense - indeed, reduce development time.

    - Thomas

     
  9. George Collier

    George Collier Member

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    I'm working up to a good time/temp/method with Rodinal 1:100 with 120 Trix 400 and Delta 400. I've found that not only I can't go longer than 5-6min between agitations (surge problems), but when I agitate, I have to give the tank 8 "twirly" inversions, "with great vigor" (remember JFK?). It takes about 12 seconds to do this, along with a bubble release tap. Any less than this and I have surge problems, always on the top of the reel, and inconsistent within the roll. The jury is still out on this method, but so far it works for me.
     
  10. david b

    david b Member

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    I don't see why it is necessary to develop for so long.
     
  11. Colin Corneau

    Colin Corneau Subscriber

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    Highlight control, for one, is a great reason for stand/semi-stand.
     
  12. rwyoung

    rwyoung Member

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    I've had very good luck (perhaps not the right word) when I knew a roll contained many over and under- exposed shots. Just the sort of thing that comes from running film through cheap, toy cameras and wildly varying lighting conditions. The negatives would all be printable but of course not the best sort you could get with a good round of calibration.