Roll film camera with movements

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by trhull, Aug 10, 2005.

  1. trhull

    trhull Member

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    Do any of the smaller, lighter weight 120 size cameras have lens movements, in particular front rise? I am not referring to a field or rail camera, but more like Hassy flex body, or or any camera that could be hand held, that could correct converging verticals. Does such a camera exist?
     
  2. paul ron

    paul ron Member

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    May/June issue of View Camera has an article on how to convert a Graflex to a full featured view camera. Maybe this can give you some ideas on how to convert other folders?
     
  3. r-brian

    r-brian Member

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    There are some medium format cameras that have shift lenses available. The Pentax 67 comes to mind, and probably the Mamiyas. The only camera with movements, other than the 2x3 press style cameras, is the Fuji 6x8 but it's not a real hand-holdable camera.
     
  4. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

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    It seems the Bronica S2 A (I had a nice one and lost it in Mexico) had a bellows that could be adapted to the front and had some movements
     
  5. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    The older Rollei SL66 has bellows with front rise built into them, if I remember right, you could get about a 30degree rise on it.

    The older Bronica C, S2 and S2A also has a full featured bellows available that will allow rise, fall and shift as well as swing.

    Dave
     
  6. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

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    The Rollei SL66 does NOT have a lens rise. It offers 8º of lens tilt.
     
  7. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

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    Well Excuse me!!!!! the data I remembered was INCORRECT!!!!

    I was actually in the process of posting an correction to my last post, to note, I had posted incorrect information on the SL66

    Dave
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2005
  8. Troy Ammons

    Troy Ammons Member

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  9. Helen B

    Helen B Member

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    Well, there is a very rare lens for the SL 66 that has tilt - so the combination of tilts permit rise. There are also third-party true shift lenses for the SL 66. The focussing movement and shutter being part of the camera body, and the ready availability of blank lens mounts, means that all kinds of lenses can be mounted on an SL 66, E or SE.

    There's also the currently manufactured Gilde (Dear Santa, I've been a good girl all year...), the out-of-production Plaubel Proshift, the 120 Seitz Roundshot that takes a shift lens (just thought I'd mention that, though it doesn't fit the bill) and isn't there a Cambo Wide as well as the Linhofs?

    However, I use a Mamiya Press with a 6x9 back, which gives the equivalent of about 14 mm of rise on 6x6. Not much, but it helps. It can be handheld.

    Best,
    Helen
     
  10. Paul_Baker

    Paul_Baker Member

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    Not exactly a handholdable camera but the Fuji gx680 does tilt/shift stuff.
     
  11. trhull

    trhull Member

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    Thanks folks. I looks like there is no hand holdable camera with ability to correct converging lines, so it looks like the ebony 23S on a tripod is it.
     
  12. Paul_Baker

    Paul_Baker Member

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    I hate to say this, but it seems like the reason there isn't a handholdable tilt/shift camera is because you can't really handhold a camera and do things like adjust for converging lines. If your going to go through the trouble of adjusting for things like that the camera should be mounted so that you aren't moving the camera around, thereby affecting the degree of convergence. Just a thought.

    Paul B.
     
  13. Helen B

    Helen B Member

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    It is possible to hand hold a camera with lens rise - I do it quite frequently. The way I do it is not to try to adjust the amount of rise, but to estimate it beforehand (easy with experience), put the camera to your eye, then level it. Repeat after adjusting, as necessary. The other way of doing it is to use a 6x9 when you want 6x6 - that's the equivalent of using rise.

    Best,
    Helen
     
  14. Donald Qualls

    Donald Qualls Member

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    There are a number of 1920s and older 120 and postcard format cameras with rise or rise and shift. Almost none from that era with other movements (tilts or swings). If you get a good bellows or can repair or replace a bad one, have a quality lens in a shutter you can bring up to snuff, these cameras can do anything a 1960 vintage Moskva-5 can do except focus with a rangefinder -- plus the movements.

    As Helen suggests, hand holding with rise or rise and shift isn't hard at all. You need a camera with a wire frame finder for best results (these were pretty common prior to 1940 on 6x9 and large formats, almost universal on cameras with movements), because the wire frame automatically compensates for the movements in terms of showing you what part of the scene is actually going on the film. Set up your movements, compose through the wire frame, and trip the shutter -- wind on and all done.

    Of course, many of these older cameras were something of a nightmare, ergonomically -- my Voigtlander Rollfilmkamera is pretty easy to hold in portrait format, but quite difficult to hold steady while operating the shutter in landscape, as that puts the shutter release underneath the shutter housing. Still better than the Moskva, though, which is well nigh impossible to hold steady in landscape with its body release...
     
  15. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The Bronica tilt-shift bellows is really just for macro and tabletop work. I have one. Once you clear the mirror and the bellows flange, you still need to have the bellows extended somewhat to be flexible enough for movements, so it's not really practical to use with wide lenses for architecture. It's also quite bulky, if you were thinking of handholding it.

    Cambo Wide DS or Silvestri with a rollfilm back might be options. The Linhof Technorama cameras have some rise built in.
     
  16. rjr

    rjr Member

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    There is an affordable line of Shift and Tilt/Shift lenses available for the Pentacon Six mount. There are adapters available to mount it on most 645 systems and a few full frame 6x6 cameras (not only Kiev60, Kiev88Six/CM or Pentacon 6/Praktisix).

    I own the Arsat C PCS4,5/55 and I am VERY pleased by the performance.

    OTOH I wouldn´t use it handheld - neither the lens nor the camera. The Kiev88 is a lightweight and compact camera, but I don´t like to use it that way.
     
  17. TerryThomasAtlanta

    TerryThomasAtlanta Member

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    The "Liere Minima" is exactly what I've been looking for. It will use my RB lenses and backs.

    It's a bit more than I can afford at about $700US for their basic package but now I'll have something to look for on eBay.

    Terry Thomas...
    the photographer
    Atlanta, Georgia USA

    Some of my stills from a recent movie are here: www.psychopathia.com