Rollei infrared 400 & Hasselblad 500c

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by ChrisJarisch, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. ChrisJarisch

    ChrisJarisch Member

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    Wow- I'm sort of confused... I just bought a roll of Rollei infrared 400, mostly to try out and goof around with. I was thinking of taking some portraits with it, to see what kinds of effects/results I can get with it...

    Anyhoo... As I'm doing some more in-depth research, now that I've actually got the film in hand, it seems like the more I read, the more questions I have.

    So...

    1. Do I NEED to use my red filter with this film??? What about other filters???

    And...

    2. Can I develop and print this just like any other b&w film??? I generally use Ilford Ilfotech DD-X, but also have a bottle of PQ Universal...

    3. Any other advice/tips that I should know about???

    If anyone could give me some basic pointers, I would really appreciate it. Thanks, fellow APUG'ers :smile:
     
  2. elekm

    elekm Member

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    The standard Red 25 filter isn't sufficient to give you the infrared effect. You need a very dark red filter (B+W Type 092).

    You can use most developers with this film. I'm using Adox ATM 49, which gives a very fine-grained negative.

    I think your exposure will be in the 1/2 second to 1 second range. Although it's rated as ISO400, the filter requires an adjustment of 20 to 40 stops, possibly more, [THIS IS WRONG -- SEE MEA CULPA BELOW] resulting in an effecting ISO between 10 and 20. I've read of some people setting their meter to ISO6 or less.

    As with other infrared film, you should handle it in total darkness, although from my understanding, it's not nearly as sensitive to "light piping" as the older Kodak HIE.

    Take a look at Freestyle. They have a spec sheet on their site for this film.

    And of course, the requisite photo samples:

    [​IMG]
    In this shot, my home made lens shade + the filter caused vignetting. This is with a Zeiss Ikon Contax IIa and postwar 35mm Biogon.

    [​IMG]
    Just the filter, only, with this shot. Different lens. Contax IIa and 21mm Biogon.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2010
  3. Andrew Moxom

    Andrew Moxom Subscriber

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    I thought the Rollei 400 IR film was capable of regular panchromatic shots without a filter. However, using an IR filter will require you exposing it at around ISO 5 or 6. Now using a regular red filter may work, but I am not sure what exposure you would rate the film at, and what the image would look like. As I understand it, it's very similar to Ilford's SFX film and not that high up in the IR range in sensitivity like some others. It will print like any other film does.
     
  4. ChrisJarisch

    ChrisJarisch Member

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    OK... So I NEED to use the standard Hassy red filter??? I guess I'm just unsure of WHY.... And, more importantly, what effect will I get if I DO and DO NOT use this filter???

    Thanks for the prompt replies, by the way...
     
  5. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Without the filter, the photographs will look no different from panchromatic films. With the filter, photographs look like the ones in post #2.

    Steve
     
  6. Andrew Moxom

    Andrew Moxom Subscriber

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    You are not mandated to use a red filter with this film. If you don't, you might as well use a regular film.... If you use the hassy red filter, it will exentuate blue sky a lot darker (like any Pan film does!) and it might yield a very mild IR effect on foliage (YMMV).... You need to use a proper IR filter on it to filter out all other wavelengths except the IR range to get the full IR effect.
     
  7. elekm

    elekm Member

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    That's correct. Without a filter, I think the resulting photo is similar to regular 400-speed black and white films.

    Somewhere on the spec sheet or product info page on Freestyle, it mentions that a Red 25 filter isn't adequate to result in the infrared effect. You also can't use the B+W infrared filter that blocks all visible light. It will simply result in a blank negative (I know this through experience).

    I think the film is somewhere between Ilford SFX and Kodak HIE.

    When processed, the film isn't nearly as curly as Kodak HIE.
     
  8. DWThomas

    DWThomas Subscriber

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    There have been several discussions under the B&W film forum related to this film.

    One: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/74652-rollei-ir-400-rodinal.html

    It's very nice as a pan film, but costs two or three times as much as more ordinary film. I found I needed about 6 to 7 stops compensation with an IR filter of 720 nm cutoff. An 89B at about 695 might need a stop or so less. With a 760 nm, I needed around 13 stops above the reading for ISO 400. I would expect using a 25A with about 3 stops compensation will produce something, but in the end, experimentation and bracketing are the only answer. In general I seldom do portraits, I have no idea what IR does for that.

    The other little tidbit -- you can't see through an IR filter, so they are a pain with an SLR! :D
     
  9. ChrisJarisch

    ChrisJarisch Member

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    Does Hasselblad make an IR filter???? I didn't see one on the KEH website...
     
  10. whlogan

    whlogan Member

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    The post right above this one is right. the one suggesting 20 to 40 stops is way off base there. 6 to7 stops with an R72 filter correct. 6 to 9 stops with a R 89 is about right. Also it is now about too late in the year for much IR. You need to work mid day in bright sun around green leaves which will give you your best IR response. Once the leaves go dead and shift color, it is pretty much over till spring. Then we have to wait until May or June.
    Logam
     
  11. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    I believe that Heliopan or B+W do.

    Steve
     
  12. elekm

    elekm Member

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    Yes, I was wrong about 20 to 40 stops. I should have said it was a factor of 20 to 40.
     
  13. elekm

    elekm Member

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    Does the Hasselblad use Bay 60? If so, the cost of a B+W, Heliopan or Hoya filter is going to be very high -- probably more than $200.

    I ordered a Bay 1 B+W infrared filter, and it took about four month to arrive. I think these are made in small batches, probably when enough orders have been received.

    I'm planning to use it with some Efke infrared in 127 format and a Baby Rolleiflex.
     
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  15. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    You can find them used at keh.com and other websites for a lot less.

    Steve
     
  16. Philippe Grunchec

    Philippe Grunchec Member

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    It's better (cheaper) to use a B60/67mm adapter and then a "normal" 67mm filter.
    With Rollei IR, I use a 715 Heliopan.
     
  17. Vincent Brady

    Vincent Brady Subscriber

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    I really like the results that you achieved with this film. I must get around to trying it when my HIE is gone.

    Vincent
     
  18. ChrisJarisch

    ChrisJarisch Member

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    Well, thanks for all the advice guys... I guess at this point, my only option is to use the film with my standard red filter and see how it comes out... at least, until I get a proper IR filter...

    Thanks! :smile:
     
  19. John Koehrer

    John Koehrer Subscriber

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    You can use a #29 dark red and do OK.
     
  20. olwick

    olwick Member

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  21. ChrisJarisch

    ChrisJarisch Member

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    Thanks!! ^^^^^^
     
  22. RobertV

    RobertV Restricted Access

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    You can use the Heliopan RG715 IR filter for optimum 'wood' effect for this film. It will be iso 12-25 with this IR (#88A) filter (5-F stops).
    Without filter the film reacts like regular panchromatic films but it has a high resolution (lp/mm). With a regular (dark) red filter you will have a dramatically effect but no IR.
     
  23. ChrisJarisch

    ChrisJarisch Member

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    OK... one more question....

    These filters of which you speak- I'm having a hard time finding them. I usually shop at KEH. I know I need a B50 size filter, but I don't really see them in their Hasselblad/filter section. If I meander around their site, I can find B50 red and yellow and green (which I have...), but as far as a B50 IR filter- no luck. Are you'se guys familiar with this site??? Can someone point me in the right direction???
     
  24. RobertV

    RobertV Restricted Access

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  25. ChrisJarisch

    ChrisJarisch Member

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    Danke!
     
  26. RobertV

    RobertV Restricted Access

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    Also square format: Yashica Mat 124-G and Rollei IR 820/400. 1/30S F=4,0 handheld. E.I. 12 and a Bay I RG715 Heliopan filter.

    [​IMG]