Rollei P66 dual projector

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by snaggs, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. snaggs

    snaggs Member

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    Looked at the Gotchsman, but even if you shell out the $$, the model with trays is 6x7 only. There are new P66 duals which look very slick, and Im happy with the square format limitation (my gf670 does both).

    Going to pull the trigger in this next month. 35mm looks wonderful on my Leica w/Colorplan projetor. Someone tell me this will indeed look awesome?

    Daniel.
     
  2. johnielvis

    johnielvis Member

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    YUP...slides are the best--AND easiest to store!

    I'd get an older used rollei--dirt cheap compared to something new....
     
  3. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council

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    I saw a slide show done with the Hassy PCP-80 projector. It's like watching an IMAX movie. Even when projected 15 feet x 15 feet. It'll blow your mind.
     
  4. snaggs

    snaggs Member

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    Thanks, what I wanted to hear!
     
  5. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    I've had a Rollei 120 projector for more than twenty years, and 6X6 Fuji Velvia and Provia projected on a big screen will knock your socks off.
     
  6. snaggs

    snaggs Member

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    Its interesting digital on a 1080p prohector looks very sharp and contrasty, but I have some photos from the mountain in Capetown on 35mm Astia shot with an old M6, and the small details, even when projected get you out of your seat to stand inches from the screen. Its like a giant google maps.

    It was then I realised the benefit of so called "low contrast" fine details that film has, and why its lpm measurements etc arnt simple to dismiss.
     
  7. SafetyBob

    SafetyBob Member

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    I decided to get an old P11 to try this medium format slide thing out. Can't wait to try my first roll of Velvia. I figure if I really like it, I might take the plung into a Hassy projector, boy they sure are expensive.

    Bob E.
     
  8. Slixtiesix

    Slixtiesix Subscriber

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    You´ll be overwhelmed ;-)
     
  9. wiltw

    wiltw Subscriber

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    Today's consumer digital projectors are PATHETIC! They cannot provide the full detail of even a 4 MPixel camera from eight years ago or even equal a 3MPixel cell phone camera! 1920x1080 = 2.07 MPixels

    It takes a $30k digital projector in movie theaters to equal what our cameras can deliver.
     
  10. snaggs

    snaggs Member

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    Quick question. How would a Rollei Dual compare to a Leica P300 for 35mm? Its an option to sell my Leica since the Rollei can do MF and 35mm. Also, I don't know which of the Rollei projector lenses are good. I use a super-colorplan with my Leica.

    Daniel.
     
  11. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council

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    Depending on the lens you have for the Rollei, you may not be able to project your 35mm as large as you'd like because the lens will be too long. I don't know what lenses they made for the Rollei- if it was meant to be a dual-purpose projector, I would assume they have shorter lenses for 35mm along with the longer lenses for 2 1/4. I know the Hassy PCP-80 had three lenses for it, but they were all for 2 1/4 slides.
     
  12. snaggs

    snaggs Member

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    My screen is 92" x 54" inches, so with square format only 1.3 metres. My Leica P300 with 90mm is fine, but a longer lens might even be better and get the projector behind the chairs.
     
  13. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council

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    IIRC the normal lens for a medium format projector is 150mm. For the PCP80 they also had I want to say a 250 or 300mm lens and then a wide-angle like a 75 or 80 for use in rear-projection setups where there might not be that much space. I'm pretty sure those lenses were proprietary to the Hassy projector, which had perspective control features (thus the PC in the PCP name).
     
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  15. snaggs

    snaggs Member

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    Thankyou Ill go for 150mm, do you now the difference between the S-Heidosmat and Heidosmat? or how they compare to the 150mm Apogon?
     
  16. Henning Serger

    Henning Serger Member

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    Hello Daniel,

    the best lenses for the Rollei Dual are the Apogon 2,8/150 and especially the Apogon 2,8/120 (and easier to project your 35mm slides with this lens).
    But nevertheless I would keep your Leica P 300 with the excellent Leica Super-Colorplan (the lens is jewel).

    Slide projection is one of the best things you can do in film photography. There film really shines and is absolutely unsurpassed in its quality.

    Well, as some of you know, I’m running a small non-profit optical test lab.
    And we’ve done lots of detailed tests concerning slide film (colour and BW) and slide projection, as well as evaluating the performance of beamers.
    Tests from our team:
    We have tested all the films with a relative low object contrast of 1:4 (two stops). Lenses were Nikkor AI-S 1,8/50 (long barrel version) and Zeiss ZF 2/50 at f5,6 (and some others as well).
    Both lenses have the same performance in the center at f4 and f5,6, but the Zeiss is generally better at the corners and at f2.
    Some test results from our resolution tests (Nikon F6, MLU, MC-30, 1/250s, focus bracketing, Zeiss ZF 2/50, f5,6, Nikkor AI-S 1,8/50, object contrast 1:4; Berlebach Report 3032; the first resolution value represents the number of clearly separated lines, the second one the resolution limit where still a contrast difference can be seen):

    Fuji Velvia 50: 110 – 125 Lp/mm
    Fuji Sensia 100: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
    Fuji Provia 100F: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
    Fuji Astia 100F: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
    Fuji Velvia 100: 125 – 140 Lp/mm
    Fuji Velvia 100F: 125 – 140 Lp/mm
    Kodak E100G: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
    Kodak Elitechrome 100: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
    Fuji Provia 400X: 105 – 115 Lp/mm

    Agfa Copex Rapid; ISO 64/19°; Agfa Scala reversal process : 165 – 180 Lp/mm.

    Adox CMS 20 / Spur Orthopan UR developed in: Spur Nano Edge, Spur Nanospeed UR, Spur Modular UR, Adotech: 240 - 260 Lp/mm
    (that is the physical diffraction limit for white light at f5,6!).
    All these values above can be seen under a microscope.

    And, with excellent lenses you can transfer the above listed resolution values with only a minimal (not relevant) loss onto the projection screen!

    We've tested several projection lenses, e.g. the Leica Super-Colorplan P2, Zeiss P-Sonnar T 2,5/90 and the Doctor-Optics / Kindermann 2,4/90 MC-B.
    With all three lenses we could transfer the 120 lp/mm of E100G, Elitechrome 100, Provia 100F, Sensia 100, Astia 100F onto the screen!
    Same with 165 lp/mm of Agfa Copex Rapid as BW-Slide (developed in Scala reversal process)!
    120 lp/mm: That is an equivalent of 50 Megapixels. You need a 50 MP beamer to get the same detail at this object contrast. The 165 lp/mm of Agfa CoRa are equivalent to 94 MP. But there are no 50 or 94 MP beamers, not even a 10 Mp is existent.

    And even better: We projected an Adox CMS 20 negative with 240-260 lp/mm and got 230 lp/mm transferred onto the screen!!
    As now the recent tests with CMS 20 as BW slide have been successful, it is planned to do another test with the CMS 20 slide in projection. The resolution then will probably
    even higher because of the higher contrast of CMS 20 slide compared to the CMS 20 negative.

    If I look at 35mm slide projection with an excellent projection lens, then the quality is even surpassing digital medium format projected with a beamer. Because the imaging chain film+projection is much, much better than the digital imaging chain digital file+beamer. The beamer is the very weak part in this imaging chain and decreases the quality of the file to a big extent. From your 40,50, 60 or 80 MP only 1,2,4 or max 8 MP (most expensive gear) remain as beamer output.

    And of course with medium format slide projection, using excellent lenses (camera and projection) like the Rollei Apogon, you can significantly surpass the already outstanding 35mm performance.

    For big enlargements slide projection delivers an unsurpassed quality. And at extremely low costs ( a projected slide on a 1m x 1,50m screen cost me less than a buck, a print of the same size cost me more than hundred bucks).

    Best regards,
    Henning
     
  17. SafetyBob

    SafetyBob Member

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    For fear of sounding completely ignorant in epic proportions......IS there a best color slide film available (still) that you would recommend? I finally got a couple of trays and glass slides in from the mail a few days ago for my P11 projector. I need to finish a roll of Provia I got a while back and I think I have a roll of Velvia somewhere in the fridge too....all 120. My Yashica 124G is finally getting a workout after collecting ALOT of dust over the past few years.

    Is Provia better to use in certain situations than Velvia? I probably shoot half indoor and half outdoor if that helps.

    One last subject. I noticed on the "Bay" that some guy in Korea was offering 6 x6 and 6 x 4.5 plastic slide mounts that will fit medium format projectors like my Rollie P11. Anyone used them? 645 would be terrific as I love using my Mamiya 645 Pro.

    Bob
     
  18. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    Bob,I've had a Rollei P11 for more than twenty years and find medium format Slides are best mounted in anti-newton ring Gepe glass mounts http://www.amazon.com/Gepe-452701-A...?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1349361802&sr=1-23, they are expensive but they keep the 120 film flat that helps the overall sharpness of the image, and help to stop the slide popping out of focus from the heat of the lamp.
    Fuji Provia is is fine it's my favourite slide film, it's very sharp and colourful and will knock you're eyes out in medium format, I can also recommend Fuji Provia 400X if you need something faster.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2012
  19. Hatchetman

    Hatchetman Subscriber

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  20. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    They are re-usable they click together, and are easy to pop apart with a knife in the joint, but as with all glass mounted slides you have to make sure the slide glasses are absolutely clean and dry before mounting the slide.
     
  21. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council

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    I prefer Provia over Velvia, just because the color saturation, while intense, is not over-the-top outrageous. Velvia can be tamed by over-exposing a tad to knock the saturation down from the psychedelic to the merely loud. Shoot it at ISO 40 (or 1/2 stop over ISO 50, however you want to calculate it).
     
  22. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    I agree with you Scott I find Velvia a bit "Mickey Mouse" in it's saturatuion, and Provia a much more useful film for general shooting, it's very sharp and fine grained and has strong colours without being over saturated, I used to prefer Provia to Kodachrome.
     
  23. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council

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    I'm sure there are those who will dispute the Provia preference, especially the resolution fetishists (Velvia IS one of the highest-resolution films ever made), but I'll take more natural color any day. I've also been gravitating toward Kodak films lately - I'm not happy with the preponderance of green in Fuji emulsions. But then again I mostly shoot negative films, so I have the ability to tweak that far more than you can with a transparency film.
     
  24. Hatchetman

    Hatchetman Subscriber

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    I keep repeating myself here, but projected, Kodak films look better hands down, no doubt about it. It's a crying shame what has happened.
     
  25. SafetyBob

    SafetyBob Member

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    Thanks everyone for the information and your opinions of film choices.

    I have some 30 glass slides waiting at my front door as we speak. Will look at getting some more too.

    Hatchetman, I want to address you use of Kodak films specifically here. For the most part, I have always used Kodak films in all my 35mm and 120 cameras. Recently, given the problems with Kodak and reading about some shortages, I am almost afraid to fall in love with Ektachrome just to have the rug pulled from under my feet.....silly thinking?? (I think I have around 3 rolls of Ektachrome in the fridge, I need to get the camera out!).

    Bob
     
  26. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Subscriber

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    Not silly at all, all Ektachrome was already discontinued earlier this year. Kodak is out of the E6 market. Your choices are Fuji and the Rollei 200 film. Plus, of course, remaining stock of Ektachrome.