Rollei RETRO 80S and/or Rollei Superpan 200 in Tetenal Ultrafin, anyone?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Helinophoto, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. Helinophoto

    Helinophoto Member

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    Hi

    Just purchased 5 rolls of each to use for a little of this and that (some IR, some not).
    Currently I have Rodinal dev and a bottle of Tetenal Ultrafin.

    Beacuse the shelf-life of the Tetenal is shorter (and that I am currently experimenting with films and devs), and my later plans are to use these films for IR, I am looking to develop these films in Tetenal Ultrafin.
    - My experience so far, is that Ultrafin makes quite a difference in the grain department, compared to caffenol and Rodinal. (though caffenol-c-l and tetenal ultrafin are similar in grain with ie. Polypan-F).

    Problem:The massive dev chart doesn't have much information regarding these films and Tetenal Ultrafin. Internet search was also more or less fruitless (only found a similar thread in Polish, which stated 1:10 for 9 minutes came out "good").

    Anyone with experience and/or tips on how to approach this? (I'd rather not bungle roll after roll of 120 film due to the expense).

    :smile:
     
  2. Helinophoto

    Helinophoto Member

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    I've now done a few searches on line and found a few hints on where to place the initial trials for 80s in Tetenal Ultrafin.
    Will post the results from Rollei Retro 80s @ Ei 80, Tetenal Ultrafin 1:20 for 11 minutes @ 20 degrees, once I've tested it.

    Additionally, there exists a datasheet at macodirect, listing several developer-combinations with this film here:
    http://macodirect.de/download/Rollei_RETRO80S_TA_dt.pdf

    I know this thread is indexed by google, so I'll leave any information i find in this thread :smile:

    Anyone with more information, feel free to chip in :cool:
     
  3. darkosaric

    darkosaric Subscriber

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    Hi,

    I had problem with Retro 80s in Rodinal: shadows details were weak. I guess next time I will expose it at iso 50.

    regards,
     
  4. Роберт

    Роберт Member

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    RR80S E.I. 50 in Calbe A49 is pretty good. In CG-512/RLS (24C) also but E.I. 32-40 only. In Rodinal you will have a pronounced S-curve hence the problem in shadows/highlights.
    But the grain is increadible small for this film. In Tetenal Ultrafin, no idea what can come out......
     
  5. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    Rollei Retro 80S 135 @ 40ASA, Tetenal Ultrafin Liquid 1:30, 11 minutes @ 20°C, agitation every 30 seconds
    [​IMG]
    [HR][/HR]
    Rollei Retro 80S 135 @ 40ASA, Rodinal 1:100, 15 minutes @ 20°C, agitation every 2 minutes
    [​IMG]
    [HR][/HR]
    80S and rest of the line are ok for near IR. I might scan some shots next week.
    as of 2011, Efke 820Aura is the only film for IR
    Heres a one, Efke 820 Aura 135 @ ~ 1 ASA in Tetenal Ultrafin Liquid 1:20, 10 minutes @ 20°C, agitation every 30 seconds
    [​IMG]
     
  6. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    FED NKVD, FEOOG, Rollei Retro 80S 135 as IR @ ~ 5ASA, Tetenal Ultrafin Liquid 1:30, 10 minutes @ 20°C, agitation every minute.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Helinophoto

    Helinophoto Member

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    Amazing shots georg16nik
    =)

    The Efke aura was really nice, I am looking forward trying that one out too (I have 5 rolls of both aura and non-aura)
     
  8. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    Thanks, heres one more, same day, same light!
    FED NKVD, FEOOG, Rollei Retro 80S 135 as IR @ ~ 5ASA, Tetenal Ultrafin Liquid 1:30, 10 minutes @ 20°C, agitation every minute.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. hobbes

    hobbes Member

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    Rollei 80S with a red filter on exposed @64 and put into a semi-stand bath in R09 1:100 for 40 minutes looks like that:
    droh1.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2011
  10. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    Rollei Retro 80S 135 @ ~ 40, Tetenal Ultrafin Liquid 1:30, 11 minutes @ 20°C, slow agitation every 30 seconds
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  11. adam hirsch

    adam hirsch Member

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    Hobbes,

    That is a beautiful picture. What other film do you compare this to? Is there any Kodak or Ilford film that comes close?


    Adam
     
  12. Rolleijoe

    Rolleijoe Member

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    There is no other film to compare this to. Kodak & Ilford has nothing that comes anywhere near the look/quality of the Rollei films.

    As the song goes "ain't nothing like the real thing, baby", and that "thing" is the Rollei line of films. Just wish their R³ was still available.
     
  13. Роберт

    Роберт Member

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    R3 was a project where Forte in Hungary was involved. They stopped in 2007 so that was also the end of R3. But I agree this film had a very special look but needed developers for deep penetration in the 3 layers for a good result.
    In fact a modified Traffic Surveillance Film on clear Polyester layer.
     
  14. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    For most of the Rollei films, thanks to Agfa-Gevaert.
     
  15. hobbes

    hobbes Member

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    Hi Adam,
    Thank you. :smile: Well, I don't have anything at the Kodak/Ilford side that would be comparable to R80S or 200S. In fact, I tried the Rollei films and quit using them pretty soon for one reason - PET base that works like an optical fiber. So, I'm staying at Plus-X & Tri-X until either I finish my stock or Kodak put the prodution to an end. :smile:
     
  16. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    Most (if not all) Rollei films have anti-halation undercoats (AHU), the only current film that doesn't sport AHU, intentionally, is Efke IR820Aura, and its neither Rollei nor Adox but Efke and its quite awesome to say the least, especially in format 120.
    Kodak TP used PET base as well, ESTAR in Kodak's vocab, so are other films of theirs, especially in larger formats where PET is a must.
    Could You explain Yourself what does "PET base that works like an optical fiber" means?

    Thanks,
    G
     
  17. piu58

    piu58 Member

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    > "PET base that works like an optical fiber"

    Normal base material is dyed and doesn’t pipes light not very far. The PET base is clear, what has advantages of course. But it pipes light over a long distance. Not a problem for 120. But if you change a 35mm film in bright sun you may lose the first negatives. I have seen light piping over e distance of 10 cm and more.
    If you change the film in dim light, and if you change it fast there should not be any problem. If you must change film in bright sun, you should skip out the first two negatives (or the last two if you camera works afterward).

    That is no reason to avoid this film. Both are very fine grained, R80s is comparable to Copex Rapid! The films can developed to a normal gradation without much difficulty. Both can used together with an 720 nm IR filter, which costs 3 stops.
     
  18. Роберт

    Роберт Member

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    Not when DIY but when bringing to a lab, e.g. Digibase CN200 (C41) pro and they (=lab) are using a 120 roll film holder and put a small piece outside for guiding into the machine the light piping can go over the first negative too. On the other hand clear PET/Polyester layer negatives are so nice to put on the light box :D
     
  19. Laurent

    Laurent Subscriber

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    I'm about to try Rollei 80 in 120, and wonder what filter you used for this IR effect ?
     
  20. Роберт

    Роберт Member

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    For all Rollei extended RED films and the IR-400(S) you need:
    #89B or #88A to have a good "wood" effect.
    Heliopan RG715 (715nm) or Hoya R72 (720nm) are the best.
     
  21. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    Leica A36 Rotfilter IR FEOOG, mounted on FED 1:2 /50 stock lens for FED S
    The Efke IR820Aura shot was with Leica GFOOH R.d. mounted on Summitar
    Rollei Retro 80S is quite interesting with orange filter as well.
    This shot used Leica A36 Orange filter FSEOO, again on FED 1:2 /50, developer was Rodinal 1:100 for around 15 min @20°, inv. every 2 min.
    [​IMG]
     
  22. Helinophoto

    Helinophoto Member

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    Finally I got my butt outside to shoot some photos.

    Unfortunately, the weather here is bad, fog all over the place, been like this for the past two weeks now, not a very good test to check how tolerant or contrasty the film gets in harsher light.

    Anyway, here are some shots.
    All photos were shot at 80 ISO (incident readings, measured from my dodgy light meter, because the light was more or less without direction), then developed in Tetenal Ultrafin 1+20 for 11 minutes, 20 degrees. (5 minute prewash).

    I also took one photo with the IR filter on, not expecting much, but whey, IR was present (20 second exposure).
    They scan and print just fine in the darkroom, but I think I had some light leakage, because I have some small darker blothes on the bottom of each photo (the negative border also had some blackness going on, better be careful when inserting/removing this film for sure!).

    Threes, normal exposure for 80 ISO.
    http://www.apug.org/forums/members/...-80-iso-tetenal-ultrafin-1-20-11-minutes.html
    [​IMG]

    Island, normal exposure for 80 ISO
    http://www.apug.org/forums/members/...-80-iso-tetenal-ultrafin-1-20-11-minutes.html
    [​IMG]

    Swans, normal exposure for 80 ISO
    http://www.apug.org/forums/members/...-80-iso-tetenal-ultrafin-1-20-11-minutes.html
    [​IMG]

    River bend, normal exposure for 80 ISO
    http://www.apug.org/forums/members/...-80-iso-tetenal-ultrafin-1-20-11-minutes.html
    [​IMG]

    River bank, normal exposure for 80 ISO
    http://www.apug.org/forums/members/...-80-iso-tetenal-ultrafin-1-20-11-minutes.html
    [​IMG]

    Riverbank IR, guestimated 20 second exposure, it was a bit bright, 15 seconds would perhaps be better, a bit contrasty on VC paper prints (how do I reduce contrast when printing?)
    http://www.apug.org/forums/members/...-80-iso-tetenal-ultrafin-1-20-11-minutes.html
    [​IMG]

    Afaik, Tetenal 1+20 for 11 minutes at 20 degrees, 5 minute prewash works just fine (for me, but I am no expert on these things at this point).

    \o/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2011
  23. georg16nik

    georg16nik Member

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    You did good, I like how they went.
    In fog/haze/mist conditions You might try underexpose the 80S by shooting @120 or 160, since there is almost no contrast and You can safely move the shadows up on the curve and pull down the highlights to give them more separation, so to speak. That is if You are after more dramatism, while on that, You might even try blue filter to step up even further.
    Scans are hard to comment in general and especially when the shots were from fogy weather.. so, by looking at the negatives and/or contact copies, one can decide how to wet print those.
    The type of Your enlarger e.g. condenser/diffuser/hybrid might add some variables, so are other things ; )

    btw: 5 minute prewash accelerate the development process.
    usually if I (at all) presoak 80S or the rest of Agfa's high res films lineage, I go with ~ 2 minutes - they don't need much.