Rotary B&W processing

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Flotsam, Jan 26, 2003.

  1. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

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    I have a Jobo processor that I used to run E-6. I've aways avoided rotary processing B&W because the developer works so proportionally actively on the highlight areas of the negative compared with intermittant agitation. However for 4x5 it's really my only option other than trays right now.
    Anyone have any tips? Are there any developers that are particularly suitable for rotary or should I just use my favorite dev. (FG7) and test for exposure and developing time? I usually shoot Tri-X.

    -Neal
     
  2. SteveGangi

    SteveGangi Member

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    You should have no problems at all. I and many others are using Jobos or Unicolors for rotary processing with good results. My developer is D76 1:1. You already know that for constant agitation you need to shorten the "usual" developing time by 10 or 15 percent.
     
  3. David Hall

    David Hall Member

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    Steve,

    I don't know if you have ever used Pyro or if you're interested, but rollo pyro is VERY easy and gets great results in a Jobo.

    dgh
     
  4. John Hicks

    John Hicks Member

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  5. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

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    John,
    Thanks for that link. I found it very interesting. Especially the following quote:

    "I also found that contrary to conventional wisdom there were no significant differences in curve shape resulting from using continuous rotary agitation vs. intermittent agitation."

    -Neal
     
  6. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

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    David.

    You're right, I don't know if I want to get into Pyro right now but I'm curious.
    Do you happen to know if the Yellowish stain of the negative has any noticable affect when printing on blue sensitive silver papers? How about MG?

    -Neal
     
  7. David Hall

    David Hall Member

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    Flotsam,

    From what I understand it adds contrast, although I do not print on these papers and don't know.

    Also, regarding your original post, one thing pyro does do pretty universally is help you in the highlights, even in rotary agitation. It's famous for very delicate separations in clouds, skies, etc.

    dgh
     
  8. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    While I can not speak to the issue of rotary processing. I can speak to the issue of pyro...more specifically ABC pyro and tray processing. Over the years, I have tried a variety of film developers and I can say that the negatives using ABC pyro are the finest tonal range of any that I have ever developed. I print on Seagull VC and with the ABC formula the yellowish green stain is not readily apparent unless the bisulfite gets a little age to it. In fact I think that general stain can actually deteriously affect overall contrast. My negatives print very nicely on the VC paper with excellent low through mid tone separation. It is however in the high values that pyro negatives shine, in my experience. I develop by inspection with general guidelines of times and film combinations. I felt some trepedition when I began using Pyro...but with precautions it is not difficult to use.
     
  9. lee

    lee Member

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    I had a Jobo CPP-2 for about a year. I could process lots of 35 and 2.25 film at once, but I don't shoot those formats very much. I could process 6 4x5's at a time. I was into PMK big time and I could never get my PMK to look like the tray developed film. Rollo Pyro is pretty different but seems to work ok with Jobo's. I never used it but have seen processed film from Rollo Pyro. I prefer to tray develop my largeformat film. I guess if one came along again at the price I paid for mine I would probably buy it. But just to have.

    lee\c
     
  10. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

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    I went the Bostick & Sullivan site to check out the information on rollo Pyro. Fascinating. Especially the tanning action that it has on the denser areas of the neg allowing the shadows to continue to develop proportionally. Sadly. I think that I have to wait to establish a more permanent and dedicated darkroom before exploring new [to me] processes. Thanks for pointing me to rollo anyway.

    This thread has shown once again that APUG members are both knowledgable _and_ helpful. Thanks to all.

    -Neal
     
  11. Aggie

    Aggie Member

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    ...
     
  12. lee

    lee Member

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    I seem to have lost a reply.

    The jist of the lost reply is to Aggie,
    Don't bother Gordon. I don't own it anymore. Some guy called and offered me a lot more money than I paid so it is at his house now.


    lee/c
     
  13. David Hall

    David Hall Member

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    This may be starting to veer off topic, but...

    I went to the Michael Smith/Paula Chamlee workshop this last weekend and OHMYGOD does the ABC development by inspection look good. And remarkably simple. I have been so slow to tiptoe into the whole Pyro business...first PMK, then Rollo with the Jobo, and now I can't wait to get some sheets in a tray with a green safelight overhead.

    The ABC negatives really are much better than the other pyro negs. In fact I had Michael and Paula do a test with me, in which they developed two portraits I made in ABC, and I did two identical ones in rollo in the Jobo. The ABC ones have way more detail in the highlights AND the depths.

    SOOO, back to the original post...if you're going to use rollfilm, a Jobo and Rollo will be great. Great highlights, sharper edges, much better separation in the highlights. Much better than Xtol or Ilford or D76 or anything else I had used. But if it's sheets you shoot, go to trays and ABC. You will be blown away.

    Sorry for the ramble.

    dgh
     
  14. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    I am going to be guilty of going off topic here but I have some questions David. Did you see Michael's prints? Was this the workshop in CA? if so, how about Per's prints, did you get to see some of them too? Tell us what you think.

    After David's answer we will go back to your regularly scheduled program. [​IMG]
     
  15. David Hall

    David Hall Member

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    Jorge,

    I saw hundreds of Michael's prints. And Paula's. And a bunch of Per's. It turns out Per and I live a mile apart, so I've seen his work before.

    Michael's and Paula's in breathtaking. There is no other word. When you see the tones, the sharpness, the contrast, the framing of the image all working together, it's like the camera is lensless...there is no glass or barrier of any kind between you and the focal point of the scene, miles away. What is most striking about Michael and Paula's prints is that they all glow where they are supposed to, there is just a hint of detail in the darkest things, and there is always at least a hint of tone in the whitest things. And the way they "see" things is such that the eye never leaves the frame. It is directed around and ultimately inward.

    As I wrote above, I have tiptoed into the whole pyro thing because, frankly, I was a little intimidated by both all the cautions I heard about pyro and by mixing chemicals. I prefer to pour liquids. So I had successfully avoided the whole ABC thing until this weekend. Michael mixes the stuff so casually, as he also does with Amidol, that looks to be easier than pouring from bottles. It was cool to see the printing by inspection...something you know about, Jorge...but the REALLY cool thing was to see the tones just pop into glow with the Azo. We would be working with a print and get it almost right...which looked better than anything I have ever printed...and then do one more, with just a little of this or that, and BAM, it glowed. Yikes.

    By the way (and now this is WAY off topic) I will be in the DF in two weeks. I know you're in Mexico. Are you close to the DF? I would love to see some of your work.

    dgh
     
  16. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    Ah thanks David, I was asking because I have seem some of Per's photogrpahs in his site and he has a very unusual eye, and he also is a wonderful printer. As to Michael's prints I am curious because we have an ongoing discussion about composition and printing. He was kind enough to send me his book (which I have not received) but I am afraid that an integral part of his prints is the tone scale, and I am afraid I will miss that from the prints in the book.

    If you are comming to Mexico City, send me a note when and I will meet you , maybe have a few beers and talk some shop.

    Ok we are back now to your regularly scheduled program.

    So just so that Flotsam forgives me, dont fail to check Ed Buffaloe's site unblinkingeye, he has many formulas for pyro and for catechol. Some people prefer the brown stain of catechol over the pyro stain. I know Clay Harmon uses catechol for his ULF negatives and he gets wonderful results, you might want to give it a shot also.
     
  17. David Hall

    David Hall Member

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    Jorge,

    Tell you what....I have his Deep Springs book, the latest, printed quadtone and 600 line screen. It's pretty accurate. How about if I bring it when I come down, and we'll have that beer. I will be there Feb 10 to 12.

    dgh
     
  18. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (David Hall @ Jan 28 2003, 12:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Jorge,

    Tell you what....I have his Deep Springs book, the latest, printed quadtone and 600 line screen. It's pretty accurate. How about if I bring it when I come down, and we'll have that beer. I will be there Feb 10 to 12.

    dgh </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    That would be great David. I suppose you are comming for work so PM me with your hotel number, I will meet you there. I will PM you my phone number also.
     
  19. SteveGangi

    SteveGangi Member

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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (David Hall @ Jan 26 2003, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Steve,

    I don't know if you have ever used Pyro or if you're interested, but rollo pyro is VERY easy and gets great results in a Jobo.

    dgh </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Sorry about the late reply. I have not used Pyro yet, but I have heard a lot of good things about it. Trying it is definitely on my "to do" list.
     
  20. David Hall

    David Hall Member

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    Steve,

    I'm happy to answer whatever questions you might have when the time comes. I think you will be very impressed.

    dgh