Saving my negatives from water (chalk?) marks.

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Quinten, Nov 3, 2005.

  1. Quinten

    Quinten Member

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    Yesterday I developed some rolls of film and while drying all three of the rolls developed water tracks on them. Some go from the top to the bottom creating tracks that pass each picture.

    It's strange since I developed loads of film and never had this problem before, my question is:

    How can I best save them?

    Can I just soak them again and run some sort of sponge over them?

    BTW I did use agepon in the final wash and tap the tanks after each agitation.

    Many thanks,
    Quinten!
     
  2. PeterDendrinos

    PeterDendrinos Member

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    I would rewash, and then lightly remove excess water with a clean damp sponge. Also some photo flo in the water helps

    Pete
     
  3. Lee L

    Lee L Member

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    Switch to distilled water for the final bath, and maybe for the final wash water as well (using Ilford's sequential wash method). I'd mix the Agepon with distilled water and go with that.

    I have a terrible calcium problem with the local city water, so I get cheap spring water from a local artesian well for all my processing steps.

    Lee
     
  4. nworth

    nworth Subscriber

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    Lee L gives sound advice. After washing in regular water, make a final rinse with purified water and a wetting agent (PhotoFlo, etc.). I use Ektachrome stabilizer as a final rinse. It performs a little hardening as well as wetting. Purified water doesn't have to be distilled provided it is free from particulates and compunds that will precipitate onto the film. These are mostly calcium and magnesium compounds. Deionized water works well, and some of the home water purifiers will give good results.
     
  5. Jim O'Connell

    Jim O'Connell Member

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    All of the above.
    I frequently re-wash with a little photo-flo when I get that.
    Just the other day, I read a tip - Dry your negs diagonally, to minimize the number of frames on which a streak will appear.
     
  6. Woolliscroft

    Woolliscroft Member

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    I put the final wash water through a normal domestic chemical water filter (several times) to get the lime out. It's cheaper than using distilled and works as well.

    David.
     
  7. Maine-iac

    Maine-iac Member

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    If your water is really hard (lots of calcium), you can neutralize it simply by adding a 1/4 tsp. or so of water softening crystals. You only need to do this for the final wash. Also, add a drop or two of Photo-Flo, and when you hang your negs up, use your index and middle fingers as a "soft squeegee" and lightly strip excess water from your negs. I usually dip my fingers in the final wash water to wet them before doing this. My fingers have never scratched my negs, but squeegee sponges, even very soft ones have if a tiny piece of grit has managed to stick to them.

    Larry
     
  8. Lee L

    Lee L Member

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    Just as information for those suggesting Photo-Flo:

    Agepon is a wetting agent like Photo-Flo, and Quinten's already using it.

    Lee
     
  9. Gerald Koch

    Gerald Koch Member

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    If the marks are from hard water, soak the film in your regular stop bath for a few minutes to dissolve the deposits and then rewash. Use a wetting agent such as PhotoFlo in the last rinse. Be sure not to use too much, only a few drops of wetting agent are needed. Too much will also cause spots.
     
  10. Quinten

    Quinten Member

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    Thanks for the tips! My first reaction was to use more wetting agent but it seems more isn't always better.

    Gerald:
    As a stop bath I use water, would a real stop be better to get rith of the chalk marks in this particulair case?

    Another tip I rechieved is to use the calcium free water you can buy for team irons, it's cheap and does the trick for the final wash.

    cheers!
     
  11. Bob F.

    Bob F. Member

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    I don't think an acid stop bath will help reduce the streaking but it will make your fixer last a lot longer, assuming it is an acid fixer. Use water if it is an alkaline fixer.

    Your local car spares shop should have distilled/deionized water by the 5 litre bottle for a few Euro - it is used to top-up batteries. Use that in your final wash with a few drops of the Agepon. You are correct: too much is worse than too little in this case.

    Good luck! Bob.
     
  12. Gerald Koch

    Gerald Koch Member

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    Once the chalk marks are on the film you need an acidic bath to get rid of them. I suggested ordinary stopbath but you could just as well use white vinegar (5% acetic acid) diluted 1+1 to remove them. 2% citric acid would also work. The calcium hardness as calcium carbonate is soluble in acid solutions.

    I was not suggesting that you routinely use a stop bath since I don't know your processing methodology.
     
  13. Fotohuis

    Fotohuis Member

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    Due to the normal DH of tapwater around Amsterdam, I think your concentration of wetting agent must be inadequate. Further the high concentration of Cl- ions in the Amsterdam tap water could cause some other troubles.


    Too much wetting agent is also causing trouble, to less is working also not too well. Are you using H10 (Amaloco??).

    Best regards,

    Robert
     
  14. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I'd also recommend a final rinse in distilled water, if you are having this problem.

    I use Sistan for the final bath before drying, rather than Photo-Flo. It contains a wetting agent and a preservative, which is supposed to protect film and prints from atmospheric pollutants. I use it on RC prints as well.
     
  15. AllanD

    AllanD Member

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    I have found it worthwhile making a stock of "demineralised" water by boiling a big pan full (more than a gallon) and decanting off the clean stuff, leaving the scum on the sides of the pan. I use this stock as a final wash for negatives and for mixing developers.