Seaweed Emulsions & Coatings

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by Annie, Jul 6, 2007.

  1. Annie

    Annie Member

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    Anyone know anyone (besides me) that is working with this?

    I am interested in methods of increasing the water resistance of seaplant gelatins and fucoids... some kind of hardening agent... do aldehyde compounds and such work on sea gelatins?

    Also, there is a type of seaweed here that responds to light... contact exposures are very long and images fade in a day... any ideas for fixing seaweed?

    Also, I have found a red algae that produces a gelatin that gives a creamy gloss coat to my platininum prints while adding considerable depth to the blacks (more than commercial coatings I have tried)... most sea gelatins I find on drying actually reduce dmax... any ideas about the perminence of these types of coatings?

    Cheers & Thanks... Annie
     
  2. juan

    juan Subscriber

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    I don't know, but I'm glad to see you back. You always ask the most provoking questions.
    juan
     
  3. Jim Noel

    Jim Noel Member

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    This can get very interesting. It makes me wonder if Pacific kelp would work. I know that Kelco corporation provides the gelatinous material from it to use in everything from lipstick to ice cream, but never thought of using it in photographic printing.
     
  4. Annie

    Annie Member

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    Pacific kelp... there are hundreds of variaties... I had some success with Alaria... what you don't use for emusion you can sprinkle on your salad.

    Rockweed boiled up produces copious amounts of fucoid that can be dried down to a powder... but it is a humicant so there are moisture issues... mind you the fresh gel is great if you get a sunburn while photographing at the beach.

    The red seaweeds like Irradia produce a good gelatin and they also are resistant to molds.
     
  5. z-man

    z-man Member

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    agar agar is 'gelatine'?

    are you using "gelatine" as a generic term? all the gels made from seaweeds were called agar -agar when i was a kid and they were use as a medium for culturing bacterial/fungoid growth

    the animal proteins in gelatine are capable of tanning , just like like animal hide/skin, and so you get a 'leather' that is of course very strong-hide glue being a very hard high tensile gelatine

    if i get a 'sea moss' beverage at an ital eatary it is recomended as a digestive aid and a bulking cleanser for the bowels so i have a pre-predjudice in my mind set re sea weed gels-can you help me out of this please?

    vaya con dios
     
  6. Annie

    Annie Member

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    Seaweeds do not contan collagen so they do not produce gelatins... so I use the term generically...

    Not all seaweeds gels are suitable for the production of agar...

    good luck with your bowels.
     
  7. z-man

    z-man Member

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    hardeners for sea gels

    have you had any success hardening seaweed gels?

    potasium alum is recomended by some for a softer setup and longer working time with animal gels-any experience with this?

    this is a direction i had not thought of and it is a very real contribution to the mix here-i am using 'gum' other than 'gum arabic' and i find myself in un-charted waters

    i have had good success with the new style spray starches for ironing that are formed from celulose compounds other than the classic 'starch'-both as an undercoat and as a final finish-might be compatable with your usage

    arrowroot as a proven component in old tech 'emulsions' was used to get a matte finish instead of the high gloss that albumin usually makes-therefore i am not surprised that you got a lower d-max when you over coated platinum with seaweed

    am i correct in assuming that the seaweed gels are primarily starch?

    many thanx for your interesting and
     
  8. z-man

    z-man Member

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    yum yum by gum

    noel-this is the"non-nutritional" powder additive that makes up the bulk of the mix for the various 'shakes' that are sold in frnchise fastfood shops-yes? and in soft 'icecreams?

    any thoughts about adding this stuff to gum arabic and or other emulsions?

    i am fascinated with the possibilities for modern tech common additives-polysorbates and the poly-what? 80 used to bulk out shampoo's etc

    any thoughts and exp re this line of thinking?

    vaya con dios
     
  9. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    the agar plates i coated in lab were made from sheep blood, i didn't know
    they made them from sea weeds too...

    all this talk about kelp is making me hungry, i wish the japanese place was open, i could go for a bit of seaweed salad, and some soft serve icecream afterwards.

    great post annie!

    john
     
  10. photomc

    photomc Member

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    you are correct john, agar-agar and sheep blood is (was) one of the basic media used.

    annie's post is most intereting, and makes me wonder what other forms of gelatine are out there that could be used. Thanks!!
     
  11. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Fish gelatin can be used, I believe.

    There is a company that sells it for use in photographic purposes. It will not chill set and therefore has not been used in main stream photo products.

    PE
     
  12. CRhymer

    CRhymer Subscriber

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    Hello John,

    You are probably thinking of blood-agar plates for microbiological cultures. If the test requires mammalian blood, sheep's blood is often the source. The agar part is an un-branched polysaccharide derived from seaweed IIRC. I also seem to remember that the medium didn't smell that great - especially when the used Petri dishes were autoclaved for reuse.

    There was some discussion of "dichromated non-gum-arabic substances" on the alt-photo-process list in the past.

    Agar-agar is mentioned here:

    http://www.usask.ca/lists/alt-photo-process/2002/jul02/0243.htm

    If you search the alt-photo-process archive you will find some discussion of various "dichromated colloids" which do not use gum arabic.

    Cheers,
    Clarence
     
  13. Annie

    Annie Member

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    Hey John... I see you are in France you lucky dog!!... I'm still at the beach.

    My weed trip....

    From time to time I have been photographing the 'illuminated sea'... ( read that as... I stick my arm under the surface and blast off my Nikonos on the B setting... serendipity at it's finest!). You may recall my adventures with the arbutus tree and developing the images in the tannins derived from the subject... this is the same thing but with the ocean (rather like making a sculpture of Adam out of clay...the technology mirroring the metaphorical essence of the work!!!)

    Anyway... after many observations of beach-cast weeds I have stumbled on a few that have made super coatings for my alt prints. The criteria for selection is quite simple... when you see them dried on the beach you grab the shiny ones... they are easily rehydrated and the 'gelatins' exctracted... don't do this by boiling or the gel will take up the color of the seaweed... magenta, brown, green. I have a coating that I am using now that has a nice gloss... think of the lickey bit on an envelope.

    It is also interesting that conservators are starting to use fucoids (these gels are pure and clear) for restoration of art pieces where paint is flaking... they are archival and under simulated time testing they do not yellow.

    Clarence... thanks for the link... it has me thinking about the possibility of a new gum-over.

    Cheers all... Annie
     
  14. z-man

    z-man Member

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    cold setting of fish gelatines

    pe-i have seen fish gelatine cold set in the food prep trade-depends on the fish-this can be an intended and desirable end product-it can be a frustrating and undesireable consequence in cebeche fish prep

    agar as a size was in use back in the day, and is in use right now in some processes, i was surprized to find out recently

    the successful ongoing use of culinary gelatine, in some cases supermarket knox, by holo plate makers gives 'food for thought'

    vaya con dios