Security stole my TriX

Discussion in 'Geographic Location' started by Krzys, Feb 10, 2010.

  1. Krzys

    Krzys Member

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    Ok so I was trespassing. It would have gone well if I didn't decide to take a few more shots of the smoke stacks. This is the Caltex refinery near Fort Lytton and the Port of Brisbane. It is easy to drive in and drive around. I have sat around for hours without a sign of life before. Folks at the gate just look at me and go back to sleep.

    I spent about 30 minutes over all taking long exposures of the towering city of lights and smoke with my Leica. I planned to shoot large format that night but decided it wasn't a good idea to wait around too long for the exposures on slower film.

    Then a security truck appeared with a man shouting 'delete those photos'. It took a few minutes to fully explain that I cant delete photons off film without, I guess, taking it out and exposing it to light. Which I had to do. Oh dear. He says that my camera and other equipment will be confiscated if I am caught in the port of Brisbane. I better not get caught then..

    These places look absolutely amazing at night. Be careful.

    I wonder though. Brisbane isn't a very large city. Can anyone share any stories or photos from the larger ports or industrial areas of larger cities? I am fascinated with these places. How they can be so desolate and lonely at night, yet still filled with hoards of workers churning away the night shift.
     
  2. Cainquixote

    Cainquixote Member

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    so you intentionally broke the law and your upset that they made you expose your film to light.

    Could be worse, they could have called the spanish inquisition. No one expects that.

    lucky your not in the states or you might be in a jail cell.
     
  3. Krzys

    Krzys Member

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    I'm not at all upset. Annoyed at myself for a lack of awareness and swiftness when he was approaching though. To clarify, every time I have ever entered either the Caltex Refinery of the Port of Brisbane I have been on the road or in a car park. Never anywhere where there is an actual fence blocking me, only signs.
     
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  4. sandholm

    sandholm Subscriber

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    Hi

    First, security "agents" usually have no clue about photo law, and in most countries they will try to harass you. Worst is definitive US, UK and Israel.
    So before i go to a country and take photos (even here in Switzerland) I print the law and how its applied and take that with me. If you can show a "legal" document (preferable with a nice logotype on) and explain your right to be there security guards usually back of. If I need the shoot and I know I have the law on my side I usually pick up my cell phone, dial 911 (in the US) and politely ask if we have to involve the police. BUT to do this you have to know if you have the law on your side.

    For Australia you can read about what you can do and not here,
    http://www.artslaw.com.au/legalinformation/StreetPhotographersRights.asp

    edit:
    next time, dont trespass, but know your rights
     
  5. Krzys

    Krzys Member

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    Haha, he was wrong to take my film (technically) though he could easily up me and call the police. I was (and still am) confident that I would not get fined unless police became involved.

    You drive by this place at night, you will want to photograph it. It is like a light bulb and you are a fly.
     
  6. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    I would be very surprized if there was a law which forced you to delete pics or film strips. Quite to the contrary, if you really broke a law by being there, I'd think you'd be required to keep the pics as evidence.

    If I were in your situation, I'd take some additional cheap digital P&S camera with you. Make sure the P&S flashes vigoroulsly every time you take a pic. Also make sure, you use that P&S when guards approach you. If they give you a hard time about photographing, happily and visibly delete all the crap shots from your P&S and walk away before they find out you have a real camera with you. They can't claim you tried to be clandestine (with flash and all), they'll be proud that they just prevented a huge act of terrorism (dumb as they are), and you still get cool pics.

    Normally I wouldn't give advice how to break rules, but this photography hate craziness which I keep reading about, drives me nuts.
     
  7. Krzys

    Krzys Member

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    He asked me to delete photos from my phone which I was using as a timer but didn't seem to care when I showed him the brick like device with monotone screen. Its all ok. He was just doing his job and I was just doing my hobby.

    Does anyone have any related stories to share. Not about getting caught, but about similar locations.
     
  8. Jesper

    Jesper Subscriber

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    And what wil they do about Google?
    If I was a terrorist looking for a target I would be much more interested in images like the one in your post (Google Earth?) than what you can see in a night photograph taken from the ground.

    From what I have read in different posts, guards can get very protective (I guess that is their job), but this often leads them to overreact and go beyond what they actually have the right to do as long as the one they are doing it to does not seem too dangerous. A loone photographer is an easy target but I don't think they even dream about driving up to Google shouting "erase that image" even though I think I can make a pretty good guess as to which image would be helpful to someone with malicious intent.
     
  9. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    How can you make a blanket statement like that about the "States". I realize the news you furriners see is quite skewed towards nonsense, but that isn't always true. Yes, there are instances where the police possibly would 'detain' someone for photoing an installation, but more times than not would just ask what you are doing, and escort you out. Of course, this is based on personal experiene, and a display of good manners. Then too, I've always tried to ask permission first, and made it obvious what I was up to.

    Rick
     
  10. sandholm

    sandholm Subscriber

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    I think that magic word here is trespassing. In the "States" he could have been legally shoot by the security guard
     
  11. billbretz

    billbretz Member

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    Joking, right?
     
  12. Krzys

    Krzys Member

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    I don't think shooting somebody in a car park is lawful. Even if its your property. Since there are other workers around coming in and out. Plus I didn't pass any no entry signs. The boom gates were up ahead. The problem was that I was taking photos of the structure at night on their property.
     
  13. rthomas

    rthomas Member

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    I am not a lawyer, but no, this is not true. In fact in most parts of the USA other than military bases, the only thing the security guard could legally do is ask him to leave and/or stop taking photographs (if it's private property and that is the policy). If the order to leave is ignored, *then* he's trespassing and the police would be called (at this point most people would leave anyway). What an individual citizen here can do when protecting their own property varies from state to state of course.

    The media-reported stories of police violence in the USA are usually true, and often egregious, but we are not actually a police state and neither the police nor the security here generally go around committing summary executions, thank you.
     
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  15. Jeff Kubach

    Jeff Kubach Member

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    Under questonable situations, I usually ask for permistion, just to be on the safe side.

    Jeff
     
  16. SuzanneR

    SuzanneR Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah.. with a camera!!
     
  17. Krzys

    Krzys Member

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    But then I'd have to tell him to delete the photo because you can't take a photo without my permission!
     
  18. Willie Jan

    Willie Jan Member

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    what they did in the past is that when you see someone arriving, wind and take out the film and put in a new one.

    Than give them the empty one.:D
     
  19. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Member

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    I realize you are in Australia and the laws may be different, but here in the US, neither a security guard nor a police officer can make you delete files or expose film, nor can they confiscate your private property without a warrant signed by a judge. Here we call it Unlawful Search and Seizure. If they do so, they committed a crime and can be prosecuted. The most a security guard can do is tell you to leave. If you refuse, they can call the police and the police can escort you off the property or arrest you for trespassing if the company wants to press charges.
     
  20. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

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    It's the same in the UK and I expect it is also the same in Australia. In the UK, even if you are asked to leave and do not, the police cannot arrest you using trespass laws. They will however use a public order offence law to get you off the property.


    Steve.
     
  21. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    In the US he could direct you to leave. If you refused he could call the police. In the meantime he couldn't stop you from leaving. He could not direct you to delete or wreck your photos, nor "confiscate" anything. That would be theft on his part. He couldn't legally shoot you. In most US states force can only be used if there is immediate physical danger to persons, or in some places with certain circumstances, property. Furthmore, if you are photographing from a public space, (road, sidewalk) anything in view is fair game (but you would need a property release for commercial use of the image). Security guards try to assert otherwise, but it is ignorance or bluster. There are now "special" rules for military installations, airport security areas, and other sensitive areas that exempt themselves from the law in general, but the aforementioned is pretty much how it works here in the US.
     
  22. rphenning

    rphenning Member

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    shoulda just said , "yes sir, sorry sir", done some feigned button pressing on the back of your camera and bailed with your photos instead of trying to explain to the goof about film and digital and what not.
     
  23. nawagi

    nawagi Member

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    During the criminal tresspass era of my work, I always carried expired unexposed film cassettes with me and used these 'dummies' to satisfy the man. With great drama I would pull out the film, hold it up to the light, act contrite, etc. Meanwhile the exposed film was safe (yes, some slight of hand was required at times...)

    And now the karmic payback: a few weeks ago I was arrested for taking a picture of a water tank from a public sidewalk. The police were friendly. The water company cop was insistant that I get collared, even though the cops were on my side. They told me that the judge will throw it out as there is no evidence of trespassing. I loved the irony- years of sneaking around and finally popped on a legal location.

    NWG
     
  24. lxdude

    lxdude Member

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    No, he could not.

    I get really sick of seeing the comments by people in other parts of the world, especially Europe, regarding how things are here in the US. News media cannot be trusted to give an accurate and complete picture.
    Movies and television are not reality. Shootouts as commonly portrayed are extremely rare. Most police officers in this country never discharge their weapon against another person in their entire careers.

    Here, no sworn law officer, much less some "rent-a-cop", as we commonly call them, could legally force anyone to delete or destroy photographs.

    There are stereotypes, many of which we have imposed on ourselves, of what things are like here. Even many Americans believe them.
    But we still have laws, we still have the Constitution. We are still very free here. The UK can ban political speech that could not be banned here. There will not be a law here against wearing a burqa, as is the case in France.

    Our society is not even close to being as violent as is often portrayed. Our society has many problems, but in a nation of so many different cultures, we get along pretty well.

    And no security guard is going to shoot me for trespassing.
     
  25. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

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    No it can't.... and it does not.


    Steve.
     
  26. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    not sure but i think an oil refinery might be considered a secure installation
    these days. and you were trespassing at an oil refinery, right chris ?

    a large gas/oil port near me is considered a tight security zone
     
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