Selenium and Ilford MGIV RC

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by jmal, Sep 13, 2008.

  1. jmal

    jmal Member

    Messages:
    528
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Location:
    Kansas
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I have recently begun playing with selenium and have some questions. I have learned how to get a range of tones from increased blacks through purpley browns on MGWT, but on MGIV I always seem to get a slight purple cast that I don't like. I really just want to make the prints pop a little more on MGIV without any noticeable color shift. I'm using KRST at 1:19 between 2 and 5 minutes. Should I dilute more and tone longer? Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

    Jmal
     
  2. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,091
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Selenium toners don't work well on Bromide papers. MGIV isn't a warm tone paper so selenium toning is fine for archival purposes but useless for actual colour shifts /toning.

    Ian
     
  3. Konical

    Konical Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,708
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    Good Afternoon, Jmal,

    Ian is correct. MGIV is a great paper, but selenium toning has a minimal impact on the appearance of an image. With side by side comparison of toned and untoned prints from the same negative, I can just barely see a difference, with the toned version seeming to have slightly richer and deeper tonality. I also use a 1:19 dilution for about the same time as you. The only significant reason to use selenium toning on MGIV is that it might, just might, add to the archival qualities of the paper, and even that seems subject to debate.

    Konical
     
  4. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,676
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    The IPI has cast doubt upon the effectiveness of selenium
    contributing in any way to the LE of prints. If the selenium
    is contaminated with sulfide there is a much better chance
    of greater LE; Life Expectancy.

    All the while testing microfilm, they did find a 1:9999
    dilution of sodium sulfide to be completly satisfactory
    in extending LE. Dan
     
  5. jmal

    jmal Member

    Messages:
    528
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Location:
    Kansas
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks guys. I am not trying to improve the archival quality of the prints, but rather just deepen the blacks a little for some added pop. It works with MGWT, but from what you are saying it does not work with MGIV. I can get a very slight--and unwanted--color shift with MGIV, but it looks slightly purple. Any suggestions on a non-warmtone paper to get really deep blacks? Is graded FB the answer? Mind you, I can certainly get plenty of black by way of exposure and filters, but I want to keep as much of the wet print look as possible. As I mentioned, with MGWT I can get it. I just want a cooler paper for certain things. Thanks.

    Jmal
     
  6. Nicholas Lindan

    Nicholas Lindan Advertiser Advertiser

    Messages:
    2,386
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Location:
    Cleveland, O
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I use 1:9 for 4-5 minutes, ~72F. I pull it before there is any color change.

    The blacks do develop extra density, there is just no color change as there is with some papers.

    For max d-max you always want to pull before there is any color change. When the color begins to change the paper has already toned to d-max and is now on its way back down to it's starting density, just a different color.

    To see d-max effects I find I need to compare toned and untoned prints when they are dried and mounted/flattened.
     
  7. phaedrus

    phaedrus Member

    Messages:
    463
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Location:
    Waltershause
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'd stay with MGWT and develop it in a coldtone developer like the sadly terminated Harman Cooltone or Tetenal Eukobrom. As this paper's base isn't very chamois, I think you'll get the tone you desire.
    Christoph
     
  8. hywel

    hywel Member

    Messages:
    76
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Lot of replies saying that you get no colour change with MGIV when Jmal has said that he does get a change, to purple, and he doesn't like it. As it happens I Selenium toned some MGIV RC for the first time ever last week and I too saw a noticeable change to purple. I've been toning MGIV Fibre for a few years and agree that it shows only the most marginal of colour changes, from a green to a purple. But the RC changed a lot more. No side by side comparisons needed, clearly purple.

    So my answer to Jmal would be to try the Fibre.

    Hywel
     
  9. jmal

    jmal Member

    Messages:
    528
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Location:
    Kansas
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks Hywel. I knew I wasn't crazy!
     
  10. brian steinberger

    brian steinberger Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    I tone MGIV RC pearl paper for 3 min @ 1:9 dilution. There is a slight shift towards blue/purple, but I find it nice, better than an un-toned print, and the blacks are certainly deepened. Your paper developer will also slightly affect the color shift as well, although I don't believe as much with RC as with FB and not nearly as much as with warmtone papers.

    I'd recommend trying the 1:9 dilution for 2-3 minutes and see with you think. You'll still get a slight color shift, but your blacks should be deeper. Good luck!