Selenium Reciepe

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by ToddB, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. ToddB

    ToddB Member

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    Hey Guys,

    I don't remember if I posted this.. I'll ask again. Any body know a reliable reciepe for Sel toner? Liqued Oz would be great. Example: 1 oz Sel to 32 oz Water.. ect

    ToddB
     
  2. wildbill

    wildbill Member

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    I don't know of anyone who makes their own since it lasts a long time, can be reused, is quite nasty. Are the ingredients obtainable where you live?
     
  3. Terry Christian

    Terry Christian Subscriber

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    When you buy selenium toner, the bottle will have dilution directions. If somehow you have some without directions, go to Ilford's site and get the tech sheet for their selenium toner.
     
  4. Vaughn

    Vaughn Subscriber

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    It is diluted according to what one wants it to do, and how one wants to do it. So no single answer.

    For toning negs, it is used 1 to 3, give or take a couple, and for paper, 1 to 10 and up to 1 to 16...give or take a few.
     
  5. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    I am not sure what you mean by a "reliable recipe." Ultimate results depends on paper and how much depends on dilution, time, freshness, and temperature. You can tone as little or as much as you want.

    I use Kodak Selenium toner at 1:5 and 1:20. I found 1:40 way too slow.

    My papers are various types of Ilford and Adorama house brand.

    With 1:5, I watch very closely from the moment paper hits the solution. With 1:20, I see no obvious change for 2 minutes or so then it really starts to take off at around 4 minutes mark. Which dilution I use depends on how far I plan to tone and how much control I need.

    Does that help at all?
     
  6. ToddB

    ToddB Member

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    Little more specific.. for paper. The mixture is a little confusing on bottle. I believe it's like 1 part Sel and 20 parts water. whats that shake out in fluid oz? I didn't know if you guys had a good solid mixture that you use without staining print and had the desired look you looking for.

    ToddB
     
  7. john_s

    john_s Subscriber

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    There is a recipe in which Se powder is dissolved in hot sodium sulphite solution, and then ammonium chloride is added. It is apparently a dangerous procedure because Se is poisonous. Look for Dassonville T-55 formula.

    I have read that it's very difficult to get all of the Se to dissolve. The diluted toner is said to not keep well, but other reports say that if diluted in hypo, it lasts well. I haven't tried it.
     
  8. kevs

    kevs Member

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    Todd,

    Which brand of selenium toner do you have? I have the Fotospeed one, I can take a look at the label if it's useful to you. Dilution probably varies between brands.

    Cheers,
    kevs
     
  9. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    It's just a ratio.

    If you are going to tone 8x10 in a suitable tray, for example, you'll want about 16 oz of working solution. (that's 500cc for metric folks) This isn't very critical.... If I were you, I'll take 1 oz of the selenium solution and mix in 20 oz of water.

    Personally, I make 32 oz working solution as I tone 11x14 as well. 1.5 oz SEL to 30 oz H2O. This keeps for quite a while.... so store it in a bottle and you are good to go.
     
  10. ToddB

    ToddB Member

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    I'm using Kodak in liquid form.

    Todd
     
  11. ToddB

    ToddB Member

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    Personally, I make 32 oz working solution as I tone 11x14 as well. 1.5 oz SEL to 30 oz H2O. This keeps for quite a while.... so store it in a bottle and you are good to go.

    Thats what I'm talking about.. So this works for you?

    Todd
     
  12. kevs

    kevs Member

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    Todd,

    Instructions from Kodak's website:

    "Use with warm-tone papers to produce several cold brown hues
    Use to extend print life without changing the image tone on black-and-white paper
    Used for archival processing
    Dilute 1:20 for print protection
    Dilute 1:20 or 1:40 to increase shadow contrast and maximum density with a minimum tone change"
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/chemistry/bwPaperProcessing/bwToners.jhtml
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/g23/g23.pdf

    I'd suggest 1:10 dilution for colour change. Don't rely on Kodak's line about protection without tone change - that has been disproved now.

    Cheers,
    kevs
     
  13. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    Yes, it does. I'm a bit confused as to why you are asking this question though. It's just a ratio and you need enough to immerse the print. Other than that, it's all what you want. I just tone until I get the look I want.

    I tried 1:40 first. It was WAY too slow and changes so gradual, I didn't see it change. 1:20 seems to be a good compromise for general toning. If I really want a deep toning (which is rare), I use my 1:5 mix.
     
  14. nworth

    nworth Subscriber

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    There are a number of recipes for selenium toner out there, both the direct and the bleach-redevelop variety. They all call for elemental selenium, which is difficult, poisonous, and hard to obtain.

    Dassonville T-7 selenium toner (Flemish Toner)
    Solution A - Bleach
    Potassium ferricyanide 30 g
    Potassium bromide 30 g
    WTM 1 l
    Solution B - Redeveloper
    Sodium sulfide 40 g
    Selenium (powder) 1 g
    WTM 1 l
    Dissolve the sodium sulfide completely, then add the selenium and heat until dissolved.
    Use the bleach full strength. Bleach the print completely.
    Dilute the redeveloper 1:10 for use. Redevelop until the desired tone is reached. Wash for one hour after toning.

    Kodak T-55 Selenium Toner
    Hot water 750 ml
    Sodium sulfite (anh) 150 g
    Selenium powder 6 g
    Ammonium chloride 190 g
    WTM 1 l
    Dissolve the sulfite in the hot water, then add the selenium. Boil the solution for about 30 minutes, then filter off any undissolved residue. Cool, add ammonium chloride, and dilute to 1 liter.
    Dilute 1:5 for use. Tone 10 to 15 minutes at 20C depending on tone desired. Tone becomes a bit colder on drying.
     
  15. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    Apparently, OP is asking more of "how do I dilute Kodak Rapid Selenium and how do I use it" question than how do I mix my own selenium toner from scratch.
     
  16. jochen

    jochen Member

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    Hello,
    here is a formulation very similar to KRST:

    dist. water: 56 ml
    Ammoniumthiosulfate: 27 g
    Sodiumsulfite, anhydr.: 15 g
    Sodiumselenite (Na2SeO3): 2 g (Caution, very toxic!!)

    Dilution same as KRST, see Kodak publication G-23.