Selenium Toning at greater than 1:10.......

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by CPorter, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. CPorter

    CPorter Member

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    ........with Ilford MGIV FB. Does anyone do it and does it produce a greater density shift or shift in color? Thanks

    Chuck
     
  2. brian steinberger

    brian steinberger Subscriber

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    I'm assuming you mean stronger dilution? I regularly tone MGIV FB at 1:9 for 6-8 minutes. It cools off to a very nice bluish purple tone and the shadows are increased by about 1/4 grade. I've never tried it at 1:5 or 1:3, but would be interested to hear results.
     
  3. CPorter

    CPorter Member

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    Yes, Brian, I worded that poorly, I meant stronger dilution.
     
  4. rorye

    rorye Subscriber

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    I usually use 1:7 and have about the same results as Brian. Nice deep blacks.
     
  5. brian steinberger

    brian steinberger Subscriber

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    I've gotten into the habit now of printing slightly soft on MGIV and slamming it in selenium as I mentioned above. Not only does this greatly protect the print (much more than 1:20, 1:40 dilutions for a minute or two) but it also takes the tone of the paper to a true neutral tone, slightly cool. Great stuff!
     
  6. CPorter

    CPorter Member

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    I went ahead and mixed up my last batch at 1:10---if I'd had more on-hand I would've experimented a bit, guess it'll have to wait til the next fresh bottle.
     
  7. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Do all of you use the Kodak rapid selenium toner? Or have you tried the Ilford / Harman version too?
    I've only gone as far as three minutes at about 1:5 dilution, and now I'm curious to see what happens at 6-8 minutes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2012
  8. CPorter

    CPorter Member

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    Thomas,
    I've always used Kodak's selenium toner, but just never stronger than a 10% solution. Are you printing on Ilford's MGIV FB, if so, how much of D-max increase do you perceive with it. Currently, at a 10% strength with MGIV FB, I'm not really having to account for the important shadows in printing, meaning, I can print them the way that I want, and after toning the shadows are strengthened with the detail in those shadows still satisfactory. I was wandering if going stronger on the selenium for more of a color shift, if I would then have to go easier on the shadows in printing and then rely on the Dmax increase in toning to get them where I wanted them to be originally.
     
  9. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    I think that the Harman selenium toning gives me shadows that are approximately 1/4 stop denser than untoned. That's using Ilford MGIV fiber. And I perceive a tiny color shift towards a hair more neutral black. I just haven't tried extending toning times to something like 6-8 minutes.
     
  10. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    I've never tried KRST stronger than 1+9 with MGIV FB but now I'm curious. MGIV FB is fairly resistant to pronounced colour shifts compared to some other papers (Oriental VCFB for example), but I'm thinking a test is in order. I'd like to measure the reflection densities also to try to quantify the d-max increase.

    My understanding is Harman Selenium is very similar to, if not virtually the same as KRST.
     
  11. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    yes,andi don't see any reason why it should be different
     
  12. AndreasT

    AndreasT Member

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    I now use Adox Selenium in the dilution of 1+30 to about 1+50. I never saw a real difference to the Kodak toner. I tone for about 2 mintes at 24°c. A stronger dilution would work too quickly for me. Then again I only like a slight toning.
     
  13. Bob Carnie

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    My dilution is 1:5 with different times for different effects.
     
  14. ged

    ged Member

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    Bob, what are the range of times you use and the effects you are after?
     
  15. dpurdy

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    i guess I use it the strongest. I sometimes need to tone the Ilford WT to the completely reddish color and I use the toner 1-4.
    Works fine no problems and tones pretty quickly.
    Dennis
     
  16. Bob Carnie

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    Warm tone papers are much faster... I use 45 seconds generally with Ilford Warmtone and Dektol - this will take a bit of the green out and gives a nice neutral warm tone
    to the paper.

    Coldtone papers I will go a bit longer.

    Generally with Selenium I am just adding the selenium so it attaches to the silver for archival purposes rather than selenium toning for a look

    My main method is to combine bleach sepia first then selenium on warm and cold papers which I believe adds a oommpph to my prints.
    depending on the look I am going for , I will adjust the bleach time from as little as 5 seconds to a full on bleach to get deep browns.

    When I feel I can charge more I will add Gold toner after the sepia bath then selenium
    On cold tone papers like Galerie the upper highlights will go peachy warm and the tri tone effect is very compelling but very expensive to work with.


     
  17. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Ged

    Warm tone papers are much faster... I use 45 seconds generally with Ilford Warmtone and Dektol - this will take a bit of the green out and gives a nice neutral warm tone
    to the paper.

    Coldtone papers I will go a bit longer.

    Generally with Selenium I am just adding the selenium so it attaches to the silver for archival purposes rather than selenium toning for a look

    My main method is to combine bleach sepia first then selenium on warm and cold papers which I believe adds a oommpph to my prints.
    depending on the look I am going for , I will adjust the bleach time from as little as 5 seconds to a full on bleach to get deep browns.

    When I feel I can charge more I will add Gold toner after the sepia bath then selenium
    On cold tone papers like Galerie the upper highlights will go peachy warm and the tri tone effect is very compelling but very expensive to work with.