I'm not sure if this is a place to post this question or enlarging forum is better... but since it involves toning, I'll post it here. Mods, please move it if appropriate elsewhere. I have a print that I "perfected" to my liking. I print with Ilford MGIV FB glossy paper with good amount of darkroom manipulation. Un-toned, it is exactly what I want. Now that I'm experimenting with toning, I have issues. It's a bit too dark and the "feel" of the image isn't right. If someone can help me, I'd be grateful. 1) I am using Selenium toner at 1:40 dilution (Kodak kind) for archival/image permanence purpose only. I do not need color change or Dmax change. It seems, at this dilution, at around 2 minutes mark, the rate of dmax rise starts to really take off. If I tone this for 2 minutes only, am I getting any increase in permanence of the image? More toning, better permanence? Or it isn't like that? 2) I can tone it for 3 minutes, I guess... and according to Kodak literature, 2 to 4 minutes toning is recommended for image permanence. When I printed my image as I "perfected" it and tone it for 3 minutes, it didn't look right. The image was a "tad too dark" for lack of better descriptions. It isn't what I want. I reduced the exposure time by 1/12 EV and toned for 2.5 minutes. It's still not right. Too dark and the image has a different "feel." I've gone though more than dozen 11x14 paper trying to get this right. Ugh... What to do here? I can do minus 1/6EV and tone for 2 minutes but then issue with question 1 comes to play. I guess my real question is, what to do here? I need image permanence. I don't need tonal change. How much reduction in exposure and how long to tone? Or it isn't that simple? I can manipulate the image some more but I'll run out of hands to do it shortly. Thanks in advance for all the help I can get.