Sepia toner with Azo

Discussion in 'Contact Printing' started by matt miller, Nov 15, 2004.

  1. matt miller

    matt miller Subscriber

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    Does anyone have any experience with toning Azo in a sepia toner? I plan to try it in Kodak Sepia II Warm. According to this publication I should get a warm brown tone with this toner. I haven't done much toning. Is there a better alternative for getting warm browns with Azo?
     
  2. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    I have never tried sepia toning with Azo either, but I have done a fair amount of it with enlarging paper. My advice is to try a warm-tone developer first. Check out this thread:
    http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6952

    Using the PPPD developer in a two bath process with Agfa Neutol WA can give a pleasing warm tone with Azo. And all without the stink of the sepia toner. Attached example to wit.
     
  3. matt miller

    matt miller Subscriber

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    Wow Alex, that does look quite a bit warmer than what I'm getting from Amidol & extra KBR. I want something more brown though, that's why I'm considering sepia. What about Thiourea Toner, do you know anything about this? Will it work with Azo? I suppose they are both cheap enough to try out.
     
  4. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    Don't know anything about the Thiourea Toner Matt. From the description, it seems similar to sepia but I think the bleech might be somewhat different.

    I don't think there should be any trouble with any of these toners on Azo. Even though the emulsion is highly different from the enlarging papers, it still converts to the same silver compounds as anything else. Besides, I would bet plenty of Azo contact prints were sepia toned in the old days.
     
  5. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    I've used Kodak Sepia Toner (the original, not the II) with Azo and have gotten wonderful results. My favorite results so far are with Neutol WA developer, full toning in Selenium, full wash, then about 20 seconds in the bleach and into the sepia toner. Great split tones.

    I do have some Sepia Toner II here and intent to try it soon. I'll report on anything I learn when I do.
     
  6. wfwhitaker

    wfwhitaker Member

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    Would love to see this. Post some to your gallery?
     
  7. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    Ask and ye shall receive...an example is in my personal gallery. The scan (as always with Azo) doesn't do it justice, but it'll give you the basic idea.
     
  8. matt miller

    matt miller Subscriber

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    Thanks Mongo. Looks great!
     
  9. Tom Duffy

    Tom Duffy Member

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    Kodak Sepia type 1 gives a nice brown tone. In my experience, type 2 gives a much redder tone, that's actually pretty ugly. there's a big difference between the two; you should try both and see which you prefer.
     
  10. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    If you tone in Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner it will go from Dmax very rapidly to brown and then purple brown. The speed at which this happens depends on the fixer (acid vs. alkaline--much faster with alkaline), and developer (the effect seems stronger with Neutol WA than with amidol), and the dilution of the toner, of course (try around 1+15 with acid fixer and 1+20 or 1+30 with alkaline fixer).

    In general I like a more neutral tone, but for some images this can be kind of a nice tone, sort of like some prints I've seen on Centennial POP.
     
  11. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    David-

    If you like the more neutral tone, you might give Berg Selenium Toner a shot. My Azo paper goes to dead neutral in this stuff and never moves on from there even after 20 minutes. I have some shots that I want the "eggplant" look for, and Berg was definately the wrong choice. (I've been running it 1:20 with an alkaline fixer.)
     
  12. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it a try.
     
  13. matt miller

    matt miller Subscriber

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    I was able to try my hand at some Sepia toning this past week with Azo & Kodak Sepia II Warm. I learned a lot, but ran out of prints to tone before I got it down. The first few I bleached out all the way, which only took 1 1/2 minutes. When toned, they were an ugly yellowy brown, which I don't care for. As I shortened the bleaching times, the color of the toned prints became more to my liking. I decided that, for the print I was toning, that about 20 seconds in the bleach was enough. I suppose, with the short bleaching, I was getting a split toning effect? One thing that surprised me is how Azo G2 & G3 produce quite different colors in this toner. The G3 was a little to yellow for my taste, but still acceptable. The G2 was a nice warm brown, which I really liked. I will try a thiourea toner for the next batch. And also a much slower bleach.