Shen-Hao: Graflex back?

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Robland, Mar 20, 2009.

  1. Robland

    Robland Member

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    Hope I spelled it correctly, there are a verity of spellings on th web. I'm wondering if my 4x5 Shen Hao will accept a Horseman 612 roll film back. The Horseman uses the Graflex system. My goal is to eventually get a Horseman Pro 612 system and when I do I'll have this as a back-up or possibly for N+1 Zone Systems exposures. 2 backs are better than one, different film? I know Shen Hao makes a 6x17 roll film back, too big, bulky and not usable on another manufacturers system. The Horseman Pro 612 has some advantages including interchanging lenses and backs with the Shen-Hao. (if I'm lucky). If it turns out the Shen Hao does not accept the Horseman roll film back, does the Chamonix 4x5?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2009
  2. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    Your back should have sliders. Check and see. Slide the sliders and the ground glass should come off.

    Shen Hao also makes a 6x12 which is fairly cheap. The 6x17 they make for 4x5 cameras should fit any graflok back camera.
     
  3. wally

    wally Member

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    Which model?

    My Shen Hao 45HZ-II has a graflok back, and works well with my gaoersi 6x12 back.

    I don't know what version you're thinking of. Look at badger graphic to see the models available.
     
  4. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    What you are asking is "does my camera have a GRAFLOK back?" Not Graflex, but designed by Graflex originally, it has always been called a "Graflok" back.

    The Graflok system allows you to use a variety of standardized back accessories, such as roll film backs.
     
  5. Californiakid

    Californiakid Member

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    Is there a difference between graflox and graflex backs?
     
  6. Californiakid

    Californiakid Member

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    Shen hao hzx45 IIA- is graflok same as a graflex back

    Hi,:smile: just bought a Shen hao hzx45 IIA 4x5 camera and looking to buy the graflex "23" 6x9 back for 4x5 cameras but not sure if it will work. Camera is a graflok back and 120 back is graflex.anyone with this knowledge plz advise a newby to 4x5.thx in advance
     
  7. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

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    Yes. In general -- there are exceptions -- film holders that fit one won't fit the other.

    Graflex Inc was a company; Graflex Inc is the last incarnation, it began as Folmer & Schwing. Graflex is a brand. Within the Graflex (the company and brand) product slate Graflex cameras are all SLRs with focal plane shutters. The Graflex back was introduced I don't know when (early 20th century) and was used on Graflex SLRs. Graflex backs have one slider, a lip opposite the slider that one edge of the film holder slips under and a lip at the insertion side of the gate. This lip fits in a groove in the film holder. Graflex SLRs rarely have ground glass focusing panels that sit behind the shutter. However, Graphic press cameras (read on) could be ordered with Graflex backs; these backs have focusing panels that are attached and detached like film holders.

    Graflex the company made a number of camera types in addition to Graflex SLRs. These include view cameras and press cameras. Graflex' press cameras were called Graphics. Early ones (up to the next-to-last incarnation) all have focal plane shutters, are called Speed Graphics. The next-to-last incarnation (Pacemaker Graphics), introduced in 1947, expanded the line to include press cameras with no focal plane shutter (Pacemaker Crown Graphics, usually called Crown Graphics) and with focal plane shutter (Pacemaker Speed Graphic). All of the SLRs and press cameras have wooden bodies. The last press camera, the Super Grapic, has a metal body.

    In 1949 Graflex Inc. introduced the Graflok back. Two sliders, removable focusing panel, a groove at the insertion side of the gate that mates with a ridge on the film holder. Compatible with slip-in sheet film holders as used with spring backs. To add to the fun, up to 1949 all Graphics came with spring backs that Graflex Inc. (and predecessors) called Graphic backs; other makers call them spring backs. Other makers offer versions of the Graflok back, often call it "international back."

    To add to the merriment, for a couple of years after 1949 the standard back supplied with Graphics was the Graphic back; the Graflok was initially a higher-priced option. Graflex Inc. supplied Graflok backs to be retrofitted to older Graphics.

    About the exceptions. If I recall correctly, Grafmatic magazine film holders will attach to both Graflex and Graflok backs, will slip in under some, not all, Graphic backs. And when Graflex introduced their modern roll holders, ones made to attach Graflex SLRs (roll holders marked Graflex on the back) would also attach to Graflok backs. Graflex Inc roll holders marked Graphic on the back will attach only to Graflok backs. To add to the general hilarity, later roll holders for Graflex SLRs (still marked Graflex on the back) will not attach to Graflok backs.

    If you're confused, that's ok. Graflex-speak is confusing.
     
  8. paul ewins

    paul ewins Subscriber

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    Sheet holders, roll holders and grafmatics made for the Graflex back are wider than those made for the Graflok back so they will only fit the Graflex back. Sheet holders, roll holders and grafmatics made for the Graflok back have a raised light trap that is incompatible with the Graflex back and will cause light leaks. For the sheet holders the difference is fundamental and can't be fixed; for the RFH and grafmatics it can be remedied by changing the base plate. Occasionally you will find grafmatics that have made modified from the Graflex type to the Graflok type. Nowadays that is probably unnecessary since the Graflex type are uncommon and if you buy one by mistake it will be easy to sell on or exchange for the correct version with a Graflex SLR owner.

    For more detail than you probably want, look here-> http://www.paulewins.com/old_site/resources/grafmatic.htm

    Note that grafmatics will often slip under a spring back (but not always) while a roll film holder (RFH) will need to have the focussing panel unclipped and removed.
     
  9. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

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    Not so, Paul. I have in hand a 2x3 RB Ser. B with Graflex back and four 2x3 Graphics with Graflok backs. I also have in hand an early Graflex 23 roll holder (Graflex, not Graphic, is painted on the back of the shell) that fits the RB and the Graphics. It fits 2x3 Graflex and 2x3 Graflok backs correctly. I also have Graphic 23 and 2x3 RH roll holders that fit my Graphics (all have Grafloks, remember) but not my Graflex RB and a late Graflex roll holder (Graflex on the back) that fits my Graflex RB but not my Graphics.

    As I wrote, there are exceptions and I have one. I wasn't speculating or quoting internet BS, I was reporting on what my gear does. BTW, Graflex Inc advertised early Graflex roll holders as fitting Graflex and Graflok backs.
     
  10. paul ewins

    paul ewins Subscriber

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    Both enquiries were about 4x5 cameras, so my responses were tailored to that.
     
  11. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

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    That's nice. The generalization you posted is false. Now you know more than you did before.

    Your post omitted what californiakid needed to know, viz., how to tell the two types apart.
     
  12. paul ewins

    paul ewins Subscriber

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    No Dan, for his purposes what I wrote is way more accurate than what you wrote. A 4x5 Graflex holder is too wide to fit in a Graflok/International back and the different light traps means that a 4x5 graphic type holder (sheet, roll film or grafmatic) won't seat properly in a graflex back since they don't have the extra slot that the 6x9 grafmatic has. The 4x5 holders simply aren't interchangeable. The link I provided shows the difference between the two types of grafmatics which will also be true for sheet film and roll film holders and also links to another page that shows both the graflex and graflok backs.
     
  13. Californiakid

    Californiakid Member

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    My graphic 23 back says graphic and it is being delivered this week,will let you know if it works on my Shen hao hzx45 graflok back. Thanks for your input
     
  14. paul ewins

    paul ewins Subscriber

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    That should be fine - and sorry to derail the thread a bit with Graflex trivia.
     
  15. Californiakid

    Californiakid Member

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    Thanks for the info,my graphic "23" back showed up and fits my Shen hao 4x5 perfectly.now I just have to find time from work to go shooting.thanks guys.