Shutter for 12in Commercial Ektar?

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by belaire, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. belaire

    belaire Member

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    I have a 12in commercial ektar that I would like to put into a shutter. I understand that these lenses (if sold with a shutter) originally came with Ilex #4 Acme Synchro shutters.

    My question is, will an Ilex #4 Universal fit and work properly? What's the difference between them? Also, will other shutters fit, for instance an Alphax #4? Are there any modern shutters that would work?

    I've using this lens in barrel with some nice results, but I'd really like to get the extra flexibility of a shutter. Any other ideas? My camera is a Graphic View II.

    Thanks!
     
  2. belaire

    belaire Member

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    OK, so I found out that the difference between Universal and Acme is self-cocking vs non self-cocking. It also seems that the sizes are the same.
     
  3. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Welcome to APUG!.. Oh and what was the question again?
     
  4. belaire

    belaire Member

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    "I guess, I answered it," he said sheepishly.

    Sorry for the wasted post...but really, I've been searching on and off all week and didn't find this until AFTER I made my post.

    Anyway, if anyone has any other suggestions about other shutters besides Ilex for the 12" commercial ektar, I'd still like to learn about them.

    Thanks.
     
  5. David Lindquist

    David Lindquist Subscriber

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    First of all there are a couple of possible difficulties in putting this lens in a No. 4 Ilex shutter. One is that Kodak may have put a different thread on the lens components that were to go in to a barrel mount versus those that were to go in a No. 4 Ilex shutter. This is not uncommon in lenses that were available in either barrel or shutter mount. Secondly in many (most?) cases the Ilex shutters Kodak mounted their lenses in had a different size thread than Ilex supplied as standard. So I think it's unlikely you would be able to simply screw the components of your barrel mounted lens in to a No. 4 Ilex. Some one like SK Grimes would need to machine adapters.

    The largest shutter currently available new is the No. 3 Copal. The major diameter of its lens mounting thread is 58mm. This may or may not be big enough to allow the fitting of this lens. Again someone like SK Grimes could advise.
    David
     
  6. c.d.ewen

    c.d.ewen Subscriber

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    I have a set of 12" Commercial Ektar cells (no barrel, no shutter), and an Ilex No 4 Acme Synchro. No way, no how these can be put together. The lens is bigger than the shutter opening.

    I measure the Major Diameter (male threads) on the front 12" CE as 2.393" and 36 TPI (threads per inch). The 305mm Caltar that came in the shutter measures 2.340" and 40 TPI (this is what Grimes shows, also).

    As David says, Kodak must have told Ilex to put a different thread on their shutters.

    Charley
     
  7. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    Yes, Kodak did have custom made Ilex shutters with entirely different thread sizes, from standard Ilex shutters found on other brands of lenses. I have a complete set of Ektars in Shutter, and no way will these even come close to fitting standard Ilex shutters.

    While you could have Grimes custom mount a barrel Ektar into a suitable shutter, the cost would exceed what you can expect to pay for a good used Ektar already in a good working shutter. (any focal length)
     
  8. Steve Hamley

    Steve Hamley Member

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    I think your only option is to find one with trashed glass and a good shutter then swap them, or more likely, buy one in shutter and sell yours in barrel. Having a barrel lens custom mounted in shutter is almost never economical, even if you got the glass for free. A shutter will be $200 - $350, adapters about $350, and an aperture scale about $50. So $600 at a minimum and you could buy a near mint 12" Commercial Ektar for around $400 -450 at most. Even if you already have a shutter, you'd be better off financially to buy a new one in shutter and sell the old.

    Cheers, Steve
     
  9. c.d.ewen

    c.d.ewen Subscriber

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    Well, there is another option, albeit more beneficial to me than you. You can rent me the lens for a day, so I can measure it and make adapters for the my lens cells that have sat in a box, unused, for years :D

    Charley
     
  10. belaire

    belaire Member

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    Thanks, everyone. This really helps! I think I'll look for one with a shutter and then sell my barrel.
     
  11. k_jupiter

    k_jupiter Member

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    I had noticed that.
    I have an Acme 4 Syncro shutter with a 12 inch Kodak Commercial Ektar in it, yet when I compared it to the Acme 4 I have for my Gundlach radar anastigmat 5x7. The Kodak is much bigger.

    tim in san jose
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2010
  12. c.d.ewen

    c.d.ewen Subscriber

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    The OP, Scott, is a gentleman of the First Class. He very kindly loaned me his barrel lens, and I've measured it so as to be able to mount my cells.

    Many thanks!

    Just for the record, this was my observation:

    Barrel length: 1.5745"
    Front to iris: 0.839"
    Front threads: 2.365-2.393 36 TPI
    Rear threads: 2.524-2.549 36 TPI

    One should always be cautious about published measurements, as there can be some variations. E.g., Scott's 1958 rear cell measured 2.549, while my 1947 cell measured 2.545. Not a lot, but enough to cause a fit that may feel too snug or too loose.

    Charley