Shutter for barrel lenses?

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Sportera, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. Sportera

    Sportera Member

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    I am wondering if there is a way to use my barrel lenses on my Tachihara?

    Currently I am using them on a speed graphic, carrying both the Tach and the speed is too much so I usually choose one or the other. I would like to use my brass lenses on the Tach.

    Is there a shutter available to allow for speeds from 1/30- 1/500?

    The packard seems to be for time exposures only is that correct.
     
  2. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Subscriber

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    I believe a packard also gives you one timed speed of approximately 1/25 or so. A search here on packard shutters will give you a quick answer. Best. Shawn
     
  3. Sportera

    Sportera Member

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    Yes you are right.

    That will not do, I need faster, are there any other options?
     
  4. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Subscriber

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    Sinar makes a behind the lens focal plane shutter. A friend of mine added one to his Canham and it works great though it's a bit pricey and would certainly require some modification to your camera.
     
  5. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser

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    sam,

    you might look into buying a shutter, like a copal or prontar or betax, alphax or ...
    and "front mount it " to your lens. i have never done this, but have heard
    of folks front mounting shutters, and from what i gather it isn't as expensive
    as having it mounted "in a shutter" because there are not shims, or crazy machining or critical spacing involved.
    it mounts on like a big filter, and you can take it off
    (or not? ) when you want to use it as a barrel.
    not quite sure if there would be vignetting ... as i said, never done it, but steve grimes &co
    suggested it to me at one time, so i guess it is a viable option ...

    good luck!

    john

    ps. there is always the jim galli shutter or the top hat / lens cap method as well :wink:
     
  6. Len Middleton

    Len Middleton Member

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    With a large shutter (e.g. Ilex #5), depending upon the size of the lens, you can mount the shutter in front of the lens (as mentioned by John), or the lens in front of the shutter with (typical packard mounting, except using a lensboard). Either mounting may vignet depending upon angle of view and format.

    The advantage of front mounting the shutter is that if the filter threads are standard, you might be able to purchase filter thread adapters to mount the shutter onto multiple lenses. For mounting the lens in front of the shutter you will need to machine adapters for the different lenses to fit into the shutter.

    I have a trio of barrel mounted process lenses for my 8x10 that I am looking at that issue as well. I do not however, share your need for speed.

    Good luck and let us know how you make out,

    Len
     
  7. Dan Fromm

    Dan Fromm Member

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    Um, Sam, I use all sorts of lenses in barrel hung in front of a Copal #1 with no problems. But on 2x3, not 4x5. The shortest lens I use that way at infinity is around 120 mm.

    But hanging a lens in front of a #1 with 4x5 is more problematic because of vignetting. Here's the test: if the distance from the lens' exit pupil to the shutter's diaphragm is less than 20% of the distance from the lens' exit pupil to the film plane, vignetting will not be a problem at infinity. This based on reasoning from similar triangles with the facts that the #1 shutter's maximum aperture is 30 mm and the diagonal of 4x5 film is 150 mm.

    You want 1/500? You're dreaming. A cock-and-shoot Copal 1's top speed is 1/400. A Copal Press' top speed is 1/125. Larger shutters (Alphax, Betax, Gammax, #3) are all slower.

    Since you want to carry only the Tachihara you can't use your Speed, mounted in front of the lens, as the shutter. That's the way to get high shutter speeds ...

    Good luck, have fun,

    Dan
     
  8. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member

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    If you want 1/500, the Speed Graphic is the way to go.

    [​IMG]

    If you want the Speed Graphic shutter on the Tachihara, you will have to invent a way to cobble the two together! :smile:
     
  9. Sportera

    Sportera Member

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    I guess I was just dreaming!

    Thanks everyone.
     
  10. darinwc

    darinwc Subscriber

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    Sam,
    questions:
    1. what size of lenses are you talking about? The larger the lens, the slower the speed available is for leaf shutters.

    2. Why cant you just stop down the lens more to use a slower shutter speed?

    3. Alternately, what does the tach give you that the speed doesnt?
     
  11. smieglitz

    smieglitz Subscriber

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    SAm,

    Are you trying to stop motion or simply attempting to use the equipment under bright conditions with film speeds that require such fast shutter speeds? If the latter, consider using neutral density filters.

    I use this solution when I want to shoot at f/4ish with my Verito and similar speed portrait lenses in barrel. I have 2.0 & 3.0 ND filters that block 6 2/3 and 10 stops respectively. This allows me to use films like TMX 100 & TMY 400 at f/4 in daylight conditions with a Packard or a hat.
     
  12. Sportera

    Sportera Member

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    Joe

    It may be an option, my lenses have no aperature so I figure exposure for f3.5 or so and go with it.

    The ND could work!

    Thanks
     
  13. HerrBremerhaven

    HerrBremerhaven Member

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    You can try to find a roller blind shutter, though most will be quite old and not so low cost, also might require repairs. Other than that, some sort of filter mount solution combined on a Packard shutter might do the trick. Ideally, if you can find a Packard shutter with flash sync, you could use the flash for faster speeds.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat Photography
     
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  15. spongeboy

    spongeboy Member

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    Continuing from Dan's thoughts: For 4x5", just get an Alphax, Betax, Ilex, or the like #3, or larger shutter and front-mount. Works usu. really well as long as you're not thinking extreme wide angle....
     
  16. darinwc

    darinwc Subscriber

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    Something else i've heard done is someone stripping a speed graphic of the bed, rails, rangefinder, back, etc and using the body+shutter.
    An ugly 2x3 speed will be pretty cheap and still large enough for most lenses.
     
  17. void

    void Member

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    An off-topic.

    Ole, Is it a kind of smart, universal, way on lens mounting to lens board? If it is than can You put a bigger picture of the center part with it?
     
  18. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's a different one, without a lens in it. That makes it a little easier to see what it is. This one's a bit bigger though, so it won't fit on a Speed Graphic lens board. It sits on a Sinar board now, for use on a Gandolfi 8x10":
     

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  19. petrdvorak

    petrdvorak Member

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    Ole, how does one call this device in German? :smile:
     
  20. smieglitz

    smieglitz Subscriber

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  21. void

    void Member

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    Nice device! What's it's name? Where was it produced?
     
  22. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member

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    The last one I bought was called "Uralt Kamerateil oder sowas?" :smile:

    But they're often called something with "Iris", "Universal", and "Lens mount" in it in whichever order.

    Most of them seem to have been made in Germany. In my experience they are often cheaper when attached to a camera than alone. Two of mine came that way; and then the camera was just too nice to get rid of so I bought another one...
     
  23. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    Sam, can you strobe your light? Obviously that's no good for most outdoor stuff.
     
  24. petrdvorak

    petrdvorak Member

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    LOL :smile:
    Yeah, they usually go for premium prices these days. Everyone needs one to mount a lens recently acquired from Jim G. :D
     
  25. Gigabitfilm

    Gigabitfilm Member

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    This iris-ring is called in Germany since over 100 years Universalanschraubring or Universal-Objektivring.

    One example in ICA-Hauptkatalog Dresden 1912: sizes - greatest (littelst) size for optics 53 (20), 60 (20), 80 (25), 120mm (40mm)

    One example in Mail order catalogue Central Camera Company, Chikago 1935, page 98, Iris Lens Flanges
    No. 1 for lenses 4-10 to 2 4-10'' Dia. up to
    No. 4 for lenses 2 -to 4 3/4 '' Dia. - this costs Dollar 9.60 (not today):wink:

    In France (and in Germany) it was in sale up to 1963: Central Ohoto - France Photo ICA - Photo-Cine-Stock
    Catalogue gros 1963, page 54 Rondelle Universelle in two sizes
    Ouverture de 15 a 60 mm 61,40 Francs
    Ouverture de 25 a 100 mm 102,23 Francs

    They were deliverable together mounted on a sync. shutter 1/25 sec. from Gitzo with free diameter 59 or 74 mm. Thuch a piece I have on my Kardan-Color, I found in Bievres, Paris on the famous fleemarket. Good old days, there had been EVERYTHING!!
     
  26. petrdvorak

    petrdvorak Member

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    Thank you, GBF. I'll keep looking.