Silver based manufactureres?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Jorge Oliveira, Aug 26, 2004.

  1. Jorge Oliveira

    Jorge Oliveira Member

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    After the Ilford news, I've started to think: Who could be manufacturing B&W silver based material in the near future?
    BTW, very little spoken about - but the Efke factory is closed.

    So, some crystal ball guesses:

    - There is this German group. Nobody knows yet what they will really do.
    - Fuji - Not a word from them.
    - Kodak has purchased an stake in Lucky of China , they have a new B&W emulsion.
    - Kodak - Unoficial info that they would be moving all B&W paper production to Brazil.

    So, could be that big yellow will be the last resort?

    Jorge O
     
  2. mobtown_4x5

    mobtown_4x5 Member

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  3. Emile de Leon

    Emile de Leon Member

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    Jorge,
    A couple of senarios for the fate of ULF film...
    1.There will continue to be one or two outlets that will continue to stock ULF film and we will have a choice as always.
    2.Special order only from a couple of manufactuers from retailers in relatively small quantities.
    3. A group of us will get together with each spending several thousand dollars to make a big special group order from Kodak in ULF.
    4.Coat your own glass plates.

    I'm hoping there will be alternatives for us in ULF but frankly I thought that Ilford would be the one company that would endure. It looks like unless someone steps in to save the day the Kodak alternative seems most likely.

    I think there is much potential for growth in ULF but if the film companies relinquish their support, we are in big trouble, and so are the LF camera companies.
     
  4. Jorge Oliveira

    Jorge Oliveira Member

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    Could this be a possibility? An ULF camera maker ordering sheet films from whoever and rebranding it?

    Just another guess.

    Jorge O
     
  5. Jorge Oliveira

    Jorge Oliveira Member

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  6. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    Interesting site!!

    I especially enjoyed the Freudian slip - translation error - ? in the heading of the last column ... "USEFOOL .."

    Prophetic? Some sort of "insider" advisement? A description of all of us, anyway? :rolleyes:
     
  7. jandc

    jandc Member

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    Efke just delivered new PL100 to us this week, so I guess that answers the question about Efke.

    The Lucky emulsion is not a Tmax like product as many have specualted. In fact the anti halo coating on this film is very weak resulting in interesting images when bright light is involved. We were going to import this to the US but decided not to.
     
  8. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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    Efke factory (as jandc) siad) is not closed. They're under restructuring process, but it has not kept them from producing film and paper in the last year or so.
    I spoke with them yesterday, and everything's as usual - they're preparing a new batch of papers and film, and I think I'll put an order next week.
    BTW, yesterday I was told they have some leftovers from a foreign delivery - they produce their film for various buyers, under different brands - but this was the first time I've heard they brand some of their film (35mm ISO 100) as "Mitsubishi" :smile:))

    Denis
     
  9. Jorge Oliveira

    Jorge Oliveira Member

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    Thanks,

    Could you pls clarify the post below in it.arti.fotografia?

    "
    From: Carburo (razzmatazzo@.....)
    Subject: EFKE, la verità (lungo)

    View: Complete Thread (8 articles)
    Date: 2004-01-19 07:21:03 PST

    Credo di fare cosa utile per qualcuno interessato.
    Visto che si era parlato della Fotokemika e delle pellicole Efke, vi
    mando la risposta alla mia domanda fatta a PHOTOIMPEX, visto che
    hanno risposto solo loro (Photokemika al momento latita, credo per
    validi motivi)

    -----la domanda-----

    Dear Sir,
    Thanks for the catalogue.

    Years ago I used to buy EFKE films and papers from the italian
    importer NEMEZ import-export. Recently I have contacted NEMEZ in
    order to have information about new prices but they told me that the
    Fotokemika's production is over and the firm is on liquidation. They
    also told me that the merchandise I can find on european internet
    sites (like Photoimpex) comes from stocks and it is on sale as long
    as stocks last.
    Is it true?
    I am writing to you to obtain information about the production of
    EFKE photographic stuff and their availability in Europe nowadays
    and
    in the years to come.
    I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.
    Yours faithfully,

    [firma]

    -----la risposta-----
    Dear Mr [nome],

    thank you for your interest in our products.
    Parts of your information are right and parts are wrong.

    It is true that due to croatian legislation Fotokemika was not able
    to lay off excess staff in the past years which eventually led to the
    bankcupcy of the old Fotokemika d.d. The b/w market is decreasing
    worldwide and if you as a faktory are not able to reduce staff when
    you produce less material you will eventually go bankrupt.

    But this does not necessarily affect the availability of the efke
    film in a way that you imagine it.

    Fotokemika has already founded Fotokeimka Nova and until July the
    production is secured at the current location.
    In the same time we are building up a stock sufficent enough to
    supply for the time of restructuring.

    efke films are not very difficult to make. They are simply technology
    material. The production has been moved twice in the past 10 years
    without the customer even noticing it. Possibly, if the production
    cannot be kept in Samobor we will license it to another factory in
    another country.

    But in any means no maker of film and photopaper will guarantee you a
    constant suplly of the same materials for the next 10 years. The
    average lifecycle of a b/w film is about 5-9 years. After this there
    will be some changes done to the emulsion.
    Kodak has just changed all their films.
    efke films were changed constantly as well. Older chemical compounds
    are replaced by newer chemicals, the gelatine is changing all the
    time, the base materials were replaced, the stabilizers were
    improoved.
    Constantly a photo factory has to do something to their films because
    the world is turning and technology goes on and ingredients and base
    materials change.

    The second factor is the demand. As long as we have a demand for efke
    films we will do something to supply efke or efke-like slow speed
    single layer films.
    Right now it looks very good. Sales tripple every year and keep on
    increasing.

    Only the 50 ASA film underperforms and will vanish- we are selling of
    the last stocks.

    The 25 ASA we have already an alternative, improoved emulsion in the
    test state.
    The 100 ASA we have enough stocks for one year and meanwhile we will
    see how efke decides to restructure their production in order to
    decide if we license this emulsion to another company as well or if
    we can keep buying raw material from efke.

    In any ways the whole process of making these films is reorganized.
    Factories like efke or Foma will only make the raw materials for us
    in the future, meeting improoved quality standards set and controled
    by us. The coated material will then be moved to the most modern
    confectioning line in europe to be confectionated scratch and error
    free in western quality cartridges.
    All films will be rebranded ADOX (the original name efke technology
    film was sold under in the 50/60ies) and distributed by fotoimpex.
    The advantage for the customer is that all films will have the same
    quality controle set by us and the same cartidges/boxes.

    This increased quality and work will lead to an only minor increase
    in price because we can also lower production costs this way on some
    ends.

    I hope to have answered your questions in a satisfying way and wish
    you great pictures on our fine photomaterials.


    Regards from Berlin,

    Mirko Böddecker
    Fotoimpex
     
  10. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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    The article was signed by "Fotoimpex", importer and distributor of Efke materials in Europe. That article did not come from Fotokemika, but from their distributor.
    As I said, they are still operating, and have no intention of closing down do far.

    Denis
     
  11. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    A firend of mine from Coratia is there and he offered to bring some bulk EFKE 25 and 100 film.

    I'll let ya'll know if she comes back with film :wink:
     
  12. Jorge Oliveira

    Jorge Oliveira Member

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    Denis

    This article was taken to my attention in an argument in a Brazilan B&W group when I placed in doubt an information from a citzen of Croatia living here that the Efke factory was closed.

    The Fotokemia site is privatelly owned, registered to a man from Sweden (this was also part of the argument).

    The Fotoimpex Germany site places www.fotoimpex.us as distribuitors to the US/Canada.

    This site redirects (as per Google's cache) to J&C.

    Jorge O
     
  13. George Losse

    George Losse Member

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    I understand the concern about ULF film availability in the future. But really, there are more films available now for ULF then there have been since I started shooting 8x20 in 1992. Then I had two options, buy 12x20 Illford HP5 (when you could find it at one or two locations) and cut it to 8x20 or special order film from Kodak.

    Now we have films from J&C Classic 200 and Efke PL100 (still would like to see the Classic 400 in 8x20). The View Camera store has HP5+ and Bergger 200, and even B&H is stocking the Bergger 200. Plus you still have the special order option from Kodak.

    So, today we may only have three or four films available off the shelf in ULF, but it is still better then it was. Rather then worry about "IF" a film still be around in a year or two, we should support the vendors like J&C that are providing the films for us today. If they can make money by selling the films to us, then the films will still be here for a while.
     
  14. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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    The Swedish Fotokemika site has absolutely nothing to do with the Fotokemika company. When I asked them about it, they (sales manager at Fotokemika in Samobor) said that they don't care about it. The site is done by an individual who has no business connection with them, and they (Fotokemika) see it only as a good marketing - at no cost to them. :smile:

    As for the factory being closed - they had a factory in Zagreb, (almost) in the center of town. The new owner sold the premises, moved the factory to Samobor (lot cheaper, lower local taxes, etc.) and probably made a huge profit :smile:

    So, the factory is not closed - it just moved to a nearby town. They've been operating from there (Samobor) for the last two years or something. So, it's old news.

    Anyway, I see I'll have to make an official visit to Fotokemika company in Samobor and put up an informative site with photos and all - and with authoritative data from the company itself :smile:))

    I'll contact them about this next week, and I'll try to do something about it as soon as possible.

    Regards,

    Denis
     
  15. jandc

    jandc Member

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    Correct, the Fotokemika site is not in any way affiliated with Fotokemika, they are pretending to be Fotokemika and are selling advertising on the site to generate revenue. The efke.com site is also not in any way related to Fotokemika or Efke.

    We (JandC) have an exclusive marketing agreement with Fotokemika along with Fotoimpex. JandC is the official importer of Efke products into North America. This is why Fotoimpex directs all North American traffic to us.
     
  16. jandc

    jandc Member

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    Classic 400 8x20 has been ordered and will be available in a couple of months.
     
  17. George Losse

    George Losse Member

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    That is great news!
     
  18. k_jupiter

    k_jupiter Member

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    Here we go on about methods for removing anti-halation coating before shooting film and you have access to one such film with the desirable attributes already built in and won't import it!

    Oh well, can't have everything.

    tim in san jose