Smallest modern 135mm lens

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Ian Grant, Sep 14, 2008.

  1. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Currently I'm working on a project that requires a small - as in slim - coated or multi-coated modern 135mm lens.

    Looking for suggestions - must be no larger than a pre-War 135mm f4.5 Tessar in a Compur. A modern Sironar (Caltar-S) is too large.

    Ian
     
  2. coriana6jp

    coriana6jp Member

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    The smallest three I have seen are Schneider APO-Symmar, the Fujinon W (not CMW) or Nikon W. All three take 52mm filters, and weight about 250grams. YOu probably wont get much smaller than those for a newer MC lenses.

    Hope it helps.
    Gary
     
  3. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member

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    The 135/5.6 Sironar-N (Caltar II-N) takes 40.5mm filters, and so does the older Symmar convertible. I used to have the Symmar, which was a tiny bit smaller, but the newer Sironar-N is a sharper, contrastier lens. The 90/6.8 Angulon uses the same size filters, so the two of them together make for a nice compact kit.
     
  4. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Horseman 120mm is 270g including the lensboard. 160mm image circle.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. bnstein

    bnstein Member

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    How "modern" and does it *have* to be 135?

    Definitely have a look at Kerry Thalman's page on lightweight lenses for backpacking http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/lightwei.htm too.

    Taking from the largeformatinfo page's lens info (lenses avail. new 2002) the lightest and smallest lens close to you is the xenar 150mm at 150g with a 34mm filter. the 120L apo-symmar at 210g with 49mm filter may be a contender too. As Kerry states the Sironar-N is ~200g with 40.5 filter is the smallest current 135.

    If not too modern perhaps an "older" 135 xenar in either 4.5 or 4.7? Mine from the 60s is tiny (can weigh for you if critical).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2008
  6. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    Well I think the smallest will be a shutterless enlarging lens... :wink:
     
  7. Nicholas Lindan

    Nicholas Lindan Advertiser

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    'Congo' makes a 135mm tessar formula lens
     
  8. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

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    I'm with David. The smallest modern (as in currently available new) has got to be the 135mm Sironar-N. It is barely larger than the old 135mm Xenar press camera lens.
     
  9. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Surprisingly it's not. I have a 135mm Componon and its longer than the Tessar I need to replace. I tried it in a shutter last time Iwas in the UK.

    It seems my ideal choice would be a modern Docter Optic Tessar because it's essentially a modern multi-coated version of the lens I want to replace. Both the Congo 135mm and 135mm Xenar are very similar in size to the Tessar. The Symmar's and Sironar's are nearly a centimetre longer. The camera the lens has to fit is extremely compact and it's the overall length of the lens that's critical or the camera won't close.

    For practical reasons I guess I'll try and find a good coated 135mm Xenar as there are plenty available. Thanks for all the suggestions

    Ian
     
  10. bnstein

    bnstein Member

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    Interesting: from the schneider site the shortest lens is the 120L at 42mm total height, the 4.7 xenar is 34mm total height. I dont think you will do better unless you move into 'classic' or 50s lenses
     
  11. Trevor Crone

    Trevor Crone Member

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    I'll give another tick for the 135 Sironar-N, super little lens has an image circle of 200mm so will allow some movement with 4x5. On its Linhof lens panel this will fit in my shirt pocket.
     
  12. phfitz

    phfitz Member

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    Wollensak Raptar 135/4.7 in a Rapax shutter = 30.05mm length. Fine lens, great shutter. Condition, condition, condition, usually very under valued.
     
  13. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    That's more like it, thank you. I've decided that a Xenar may be too large, a Tessar in a rim-set or dial-set Compur will fit as that's often the lens fitted when new. The camera is only about 35mm thick when folded, according to one online source but I'm not taking that as Gospel.

    Ian
     
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  15. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    By Jove I've got it Ian, make yourself a pinhole!
     
  16. ricksplace

    ricksplace Member

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    Consider the Ektar 127/4.7. Prices are pretty good too.
     
  17. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    What's coverage like with the 127mm Ektar, I don't need any movements the camear doesn't have any but I do want sharp edges/corners.

    Ian
     
  18. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Must fit a KW Patent Etui

    I just won the Patent Etui cameras that I require the lens for, if you look at the camera you'll understand why I'm after a very slim 135mm lens.

    Actually I'll now have two of these cameras, one has no lens or back and was very cheap so I want to put a modern lens on it. There is no LF camera smaller :D

    Ian
     
  19. Trevor Crone

    Trevor Crone Member

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    Ian what is the total length of lens that you can use? The 135 Sironar-N is approx. 41mm (too long?), protrudes 25mm from the front of the lens panel, 16mm from the rear.
     
  20. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member

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    A coated Tessar or Xenar (or Color-Skopar) 135mm f:4.5 should fit right into the existing shutter. Finding a newer shutter that fits in the available space might be far more difficult than finding another lens that fits the shutter!

    Also, due to the way the Patent Etui is made, you really don't want anything outside of 133mm to 137mm focal length.
     
  21. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Trevor I think somewhere closer to 32mm :D So no 6 element 135mm is going to fit. One of the cameras I just bought has a Dial-set 135mm Compur, but I know the same camera was also fitted with the rim-set Compur, the shutter is similar in size & cell spacing to late Compur 1 or a modern Copal 1.

    It is going to be a very tight fit, so much so that it maybe I have to modify a more modern lens slightly to fit. Not quite as drastic as it sounds just having a bit shaved of the filter thread etc.

    I'll know better in 2 or 3 weeks when I'm back in the UK & pick up the cameras.

    Ian
     
  22. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Ole, does the Dial-set Compur accept the lens cells from a similar Rims-set Compur, assuming same focal length/speed Tessar etc ?

    Ian
     
  23. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member

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    Zeiss, Schneider and Voigtländer seem to have agreed on the standard shutter sizes much earlier than anyone else.

    A modern Macro-Nikkor 120mm lens fits perfectly well in the dial-set Compur which normally holdes a 120mm f:4.5 Heliar from 1929.

    So since the original is a Tessar, my bet is that the shutter is 100% compatible with modern lenses.
     
  24. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Thanks Ole, I know my 210 MC Symmar bought from JDC fits my 1932 Compur :D

    What fazes me is my 1919-20 165mm Tessar fits a smaller shutter, but the who can understand the German mind :smile:

    Ian
     
  25. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member

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    Ah - but 165mm Tessars often came in an early abandoned (insert comma as appropriate - I mean both:smile:) version of the infamous #2.
     
  26. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    At least these are German lenses Ole, or they'd come in an enormous Betax or Illex 3, and weigh a ton :D

    Ian