sodium sulfite - metol only film developer

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by el wacho, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. el wacho

    el wacho Member

    Messages:
    443
    Joined:
    May 12, 2007
    Location:
    central anat
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Hi, if I wanted to make a film developer with 1g metol per litre, how much is enough sod. Sulfite to maintain a borax like ph level ie to keep development going?
     
  2. cliveh

    cliveh Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,708
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Why would you want to do that?
     
  3. john_s

    john_s Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,103
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Location:
    Melbourne, A
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    You can make D-23. No amount of sulfite will match a borax-like pH.
     
  4. nworth

    nworth Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,191
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Location:
    Los Alamos,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    D-23 is often used at a 1+3 dilution - a bit less than 2 g/l of metol. You could go with 15g of sulfite, but I would suggest (for no really scientific reason) sticking with about 25 g.
     
  5. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Southern USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I would suggest the Beutler formula. The working solution contains 1 g of Metol, 5 g of sodium sulfite, and 5 g of anhydrous sodium carbonate per liter. Only 1 g of Metol may not develop the film completely at the low pH created using sodium sulfite alone as the activator. Remember that Metol is an acidic salt.
     
  6. el wacho

    el wacho Member

    Messages:
    443
    Joined:
    May 12, 2007
    Location:
    central anat
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    thanks everybody for your responses. my intent was to get a little finer grain than beutler's. the 1g metol stipulation was just a bench mark. after reading your responses and thinking about it a bit i see that if i want to keep it at 1g/L i'll need the borax or experiment with dilutions of D23. are there any other alternatives to borax (within that ph range) that are unbuffered? thanks again.
     
  7. Relayer

    Relayer Member

    Messages:
    236
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Location:
    Odessa, UA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    buffer capacity of solution depended from borax (or other alkali) concentration. i.e. 1g/l borax is less buffered than 10g/l borax.
    you can try baking soda NaHCO3 which give pH~=8.1, or mix it with Sodium Carbonate Na2CO3 for giving any pH in range 8..10.5, depended from proportion NaHCO3 and Na2CO3
    some other alkali with pH range
    Sodium Citrate - 8.5
    Na2HPO4 - 9
    TEA - 9.6
     
  8. el wacho

    el wacho Member

    Messages:
    443
    Joined:
    May 12, 2007
    Location:
    central anat
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    thanks Relayer.
     
  9. litody

    litody Member

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm
    the following is said to be the old formula for Perceptol but I have no concrete proof of this.

    Sodium Tripolyphosphate 3.5 gms # buffer not required with pure water.
    Metol 5.0 gms
    Sodium Sulphite anhyd.100.0 gms
    Sodium Chloride 30.0 gms
    water to 1 Litre

    use as stock, 1+1, 1+2 or 1+3.

    At 1+2 you would have 600ml of working strength using 1gm of metol.
     
  10. el wacho

    el wacho Member

    Messages:
    443
    Joined:
    May 12, 2007
    Location:
    central anat
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
  11. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

    Messages:
    6,240
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Southern USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Fine grain is primarily due to the particular emulsion. A fine grain developer usually results in a loss of sharpness in the image.
     
  12. Relayer

    Relayer Member

    Messages:
    236
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Location:
    Odessa, UA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    maybe you can interesting DS-8 (see here)
    Metol 1.5g
    sodium sulfite 75g
    potassium bromide 0.5g
    borax 4.0g
    boric acid 4.0g
    water to make 1 liter
    target pH (at 25°C , ± 0.05) 8.50
     
  13. pinholer

    pinholer Member

    Messages:
    86
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    What about D-76H?

    Distilled Water 750 mL
    Metol 2.50 g
    Sodium Sulfite 100.00 g
    Borax 2.00 g
    Tap water to 1000 mL
     
  14. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,542
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    At 1+7 you will get some compensation with D23 but speed and shadow contrast will still be relatively poor, with an increase in graininess. Development times will be quite long - not necessarily a problem but something to be aware of. pH is not the only factor in determining the relative graininess of a developer. Is there a specific reason you only want to use two ingredients, why you do not want buffering, etc? What are your goals in terms of sharpness, speed, contrast, curve shape and graininess?