Some new 120 stuff

Discussion in 'Silver Gelatin Based Emulsion Making & Coating' started by Photo Engineer, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    I have managed to obtain about 1000 ft of 120 sized 5 mil subbed Acetate support. I have also managed to get the design and a sample of a 120 sized film coater. I am not sure if anyone is interested, but I have them here and may photograph them for posting.

    This is a new direction for me that I have not yet taken. Just some thoughts on a Mardi Gras evening.

    PE
     
  2. Hexavalent

    Hexavalent Subscriber

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    I'd like to see this gear... and of course the ISO 1600 Kodachrome clone you're going to make with it :wink:
     
  3. willrea

    willrea Member

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    He's going to need some Keebler elves to help with that.
     
  4. rmazzullo

    rmazzullo Member

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    PE,

    Can you please post photos of the coater you have?

    Thanks,

    Bob M.
     
  5. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    Wait, what? You have a "sample" of a 120-sized film coater? As in, you have obtained a coating machine? Or if just the designs, how widely-tested/used are these designs? I though that coating was generally done on a much larger scale and that wider rolls were then slit down to specific sizes.
     
  6. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    I was hoping you were going to coat 120 and needed someone to shoot and develope some for research purposes. :cool: Hey, I'm available, so pick me for the job:laugh:
     
  7. Chazzy

    Chazzy Member

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    I'll be following this with interest.
     
  8. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    I approve. I'm still trying to roll out my own acetate base..
     
  9. Paul Green

    Paul Green Member

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    Sounds interesting :smile:
     
  10. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The coater I have is a hand coater designed to make 120 sized film coatings one at a time. When I make my next batch of high speed emulsion, I may try one or two strips and then mount the film onto the baking paper that I have.

    I will try to get some time to take a photo of this and post it here in this thread.

    PE
     
  11. kb3lms

    kb3lms Subscriber

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    PIctures would be great, would love to see what you've got!
     
  12. dwross

    dwross Subscriber

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    Congratulations Ron! Welcome to the Film Club:smile: You're going to be having a blast. Making roll film opens up a world of possibilities. All those orphan cameras begging to be adopted! No reason to stop at 120. Don't forget its variant, 620, as well as 127 and 828 (sprocketless 35mm). I went out shooting last weekend with eight different cameras loaded with four different formats. Most fun I've had in just about forever. As soon as I get a new batch of rolls made for this coming weekend in the wonderously photogenic Oregon Cascades, I'll get a neg or two printed and posted. (I posted a picture of the selvage of a cut-out 120 roll on the thread about punching sprockets.)

    Many, many thanks again to Vaughn and Will for helping me collect enough backing paper and spools. Thanks, Guys! Free film-making lesson anytime you're in the neighborhood :smile:.

    I've been working with a very generous sample of 340 hydrophilic polyester given to me by its manufacturer. Coats and processes like a dream. I'll post all the details on TLF, with a link from here, as soon as I've worked out an arrangement for other people to get their hands on the product.

    carpe diem!
    Denise
    www.thelightfarm.com
     
  13. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The 120 material

    Here is a photo of the latest that I have. There are about 1000 ft of 120 size acetate on that roll on the left. The 120 coater is preset at 2, 4, 6 and 8 mil undercut. Threre are two styles of 4" coaters behind the 120 coater. Behind them are sitting my 4x5 plate and film holders and a Polaroid holder that I use for 3x4 sheets or plates. Sorry for the flare on the one coater. It was at a bad angle.

    Enjoy!

    BTW, I have been coating on film since I first started emulsion coating and making, both at home and at EK so I joined the Film Club years ago! I had to pass a "quality" test as part of my learning process. :D

    PE
     

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  15. holmburgers

    holmburgers Member

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    So would the coaters be used by hand, and do they have a trough to hold the emlusion much like the larger "doctor blades"?
     
  16. kb3lms

    kb3lms Subscriber

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    Wow, not what I was expecting at all! How do they work? Does they have some kind of trough/funnel to feed it from above or do you just glop emulsion on the base and pull it through thereby giving an even coating?
     
  17. Photo Engineer

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    Film coaters cannot use a leading well or reservoir. The leading element would scratch film. Therefore, they have a removable barrier or a small delivery system mounted to the top that can measure the emulsion as the coater moves. In the case of the barrier, the surface tension and viscosity of the emulsion holds it in place, but even without these devices, the coaters work but with more waste that runs off at the edges.

    You place the coater at the top edge of the film (or plate) and pour emulsion in front of the leading edge. If you have a barrier, the emulsion does not spread out, but if you do not, the emulsion spreads out quickly so you have to be agile. You draw the blade towards you and leave behind a beautiful sheet of film.

    The attachment shows a sheet of film for 4x5 format. Very high quality can be obtained by this method. Well, you have probably seen this photo before.

    The coaters shown will not work with paper due to swell caused by the unrestrained spread of emulsion without a well or leading weight.

    They are all hand operated devices.

    PE
     

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  18. mikebarger

    mikebarger Subscriber

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    Need any backing paper, for some reason I've saved some over the years.

    Mike
     
  19. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Mike;

    So have I. I have 3 MF cameras and use them a lot. I process my own, so I have a drawer full. Thanks.

    PE
     
  20. tjaded

    tjaded Subscriber

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    I love this kind of stuff. I cannot follow most of the technical stuff yet, but I applaud the things you are doing. Can't wait to see where you go with this!
     
  21. holmburgers

    holmburgers Member

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    So the key to these coaters is the tight tolerance of the "undercut"? The cubes on either side, do they slide along the surface while the diamond shaped bar is 2, 4, 6, or 8mm higher than that? I assume the bars are made to be rotated, with each side giving you a different emulsion thickness?

    Statements?

    :laugh:
     
  22. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Chris;

    You have it right. The tolerance is 0.001" or 1 mil.

    Tjaded;

    I may end up in the funny farm!

    PE
     
  23. hrst

    hrst Member

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    I'm surprised that you can actually coat the final width directly with those, if I understood correctly.

    I've been under the impression that you must leave some edges to be trimmed out. My blade leaves a millimeter or two of uneven coating at edges, and I need one centimeter or so for both sides so that the blade runs reliably on the film base.

    Can you get usable coating edge-to-edge with those?
     
  24. Photo Engineer

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    Hrst;

    Due to surface tension and other effects, the edges are always defective. This is called the selvedge. If you look closely at the support next to a film roll, you will see that the film is wider. The coater is also wider, but just right for the support. When you are done, you must trim the edges. I have to set up a trimmer for that.

    In practice, Kodak coated 42" wide paper to get 40" of good coating. The edges were used for traction during movement through the machine and for the selvedge. The actual coating station was just over 40" wide. My 8" blade is 8.25" giving 0.25" of selvedge.

    PE
     
  25. Louis Nargi

    Louis Nargi Member

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    Interesting, don't understand this yet but will keep reading and learning.
     
  26. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    I see now that the roll of acetate is about 5mm wider than a 120 roll, so that gives you some selvedge. However the blades look even wider than the roll, but they don't look like 8", more like a bit under 3". Are they going to work with this roll of acetate?