Sources for True-Vue glass…

Discussion in 'Enlarging' started by PKM-25, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    Like anyone who uses an anti newton glass carrier with films like Tmax 100 or Acros 100, you quickly find out that you also need some form of anti reflection coating on the emulsion side as well due to how smooth the films are on both sides.

    Luckily I have been able to use the glassless carrier with 4x5 TMX and TMY because of the fantastic base laying so flat in that nice LPL carrier, even at 20x24. But the smaller negs are when the PITA comes in...

    So I am trying to upgrade the 4x5 AN glass carrier for my LPL with some form of UV type glass rather than standard AN glass on the bottom. True-Vue Museam glass comes up quite a bit as a solution and they do make it for scientific type applications too with thickness of 1.2-12mm but that would be crazy expensive unless you wanted to do a bulk order and then sell them.

    So the top glass on my carrier is 1.65mm thick and the bottom is 1.77mm, for anyone who has used True-Vue glass, how did you get it fitted and how did you source it? There are several sources on ebay that sell it in cost effective quantities and sizes but I have no idea what the thickness is, I have written a couple of them in regards to that.

    Any pointers for this? Since I am also printing 6x6 and 6x12 in the same carrier, it has to be glass on both sides, and the bottom will have to be some form of UV glass.
     
  2. MartinP

    MartinP Member

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    I can't help with a source for the glass, but thinking laterally, in a warm enlarger the curve is usually upwards so can you get the results you need with a single-glass carrier?

    It might be a simpler solution to get a sheet-metal shop to make the appropriate apertures in 2mm alloy (or whatever is required, maybe 16swg, maybe brass or stainless?) and blacken it for you, to use in place of the lower glass. Details would depend on the specifics of the carrier of course, but looking at my medium-format carriers (in a De Vere) that sort of thing could work.
     
  3. Richard S. (rich815)

    Richard S. (rich815) Subscriber

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  4. Poisson Du Jour

    Poisson Du Jour Member

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    Framing shop that specialises in Museum-Grade Conservation Framing. Tru-Vue glass is standard
     
  5. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    Bad idea. ... won't go into details here. Just get some real AN glass in the appropriate size and dimension from Focal Point. You can use it on
    both sides of the neg (despite common advice to the contrary). I don't know why you think you need some form of UV inhibition - that should
    go above the diffuser - but the slight amount of such tint in a museum glass isn't going to have any significant positive effect anyway. I'm not
    guessing - I've tested all these options, and a lot more.
     
  6. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    Drew, for what it is worth, John Sexton is using a similar type of UV / AR glass very effectively on the emulsion side, Schott Mirogard. It would be easy to just order a bottom sheet of AN from Focal Point but I have heard all kinds of back and forth on AN on the emulsion side.
     
  7. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    I don't remember exactly how I did this but when I went nutso investigating possible Newton ring solutions (including optical/coated glass from Schneider, Schott, etc. etc. somehow Tru-Vue actually sent me 8x10 samples of every type of glass and plastic they make for free. Try contacting them directly. I'll have a look through old email and see if I saved any of the correspondence. I didn't know John settled on Mirogard. I remember he was looking into all this around the same time I was.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2013
  8. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    I kind of did this with the Beseler carriers and it worked well enough. If I could find the right material, maybe a plastic rather than metal, I could do it my self. Glass or no glass, less surfaces in total to collect dust is best...

    The main problem with this approach is loss of image area.
     
  9. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    I did write them today, maybe after the holidays they will get back...
     
  10. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    I didn't know John finally settled on Mirogard. Why not try that then?

    As for the carriers I ended up modifying stock Saunders/LPL carriers myself and also talked to Alistair Inglis as the time. His carriers work well. KHB Photografix was always very helpful when discussing how to modify Saunders/LPL carriers, exact dimensions, clearances etc. and they'll do work also.
     
  11. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    It just worked out at the time, I think he went with 2mm glass on the bottom only. I'll certainly consider it as I look into all the options...
     
  12. Rafal Lukawiecki

    Rafal Lukawiecki Subscriber

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    I use a European equivalent of tru-vue made by GroGlass in my enlarger both top and bottom. It does help with NR but doesn't always eliminate them, I'd say it reduces the incidence to perhaps 25% compared to regular glass. It has also, slightly, increased light output and contrast. It's easier to see dust on film, too, with it.

    Normal anti-NR glass is too textured for my taste, when used with smooth tone negs (sky).
     
  13. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    You mean above or below the negative?
     
  14. Erik L

    Erik L Subscriber

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    You might run down to your local frame shop, I'm sure they would have scraps of most of the tru vue line that they would probably give you to experiment with. For what it's worth, we live in a similar humidity area and I just use plain glass in my negative carriers (4x5 and 8x10) and I've never seen a newtons ring with any type of film. I've tried the tru vue ar glass and it worked fine but it is a pain to clean with its coated surface compared to plain glass. Anyway, if you want to experiment I would try your local frame shop first for scraps.
    Good luck!
     
  15. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    Erik, you are currently 5 degrees warmer and 5% more humid than I am, so yeah, we are close, lol!

    In using glass carriers, AN or otherwise, I have got Newton Rings every time with both TMX 100 and Acros 100. I did a 11x23 with a 6x12 Acros neg last night and got a small set of rings in the center, no good...:-(
     
  16. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    You got rings from the emulsion side (because of the glossy emulsion) or the base? I'm asking because obviously solving the problem above the negative is easier than below. In my testing I didn't find coated glasses helped much (hard to conclude definitively because it is an intermittent problem) vs other tricks.
     
  17. Newt_on_Swings

    Newt_on_Swings Member

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    I am interested in this as well. Now that I have my 4x5 durst setup and running I am looking to make a decent negative carrier for it. Its an old Durst 45 Pro, there are just no parts as it is not as common. My current carrier is 2 pieces of matte board. Id like a glass carrier option to keep the film flat. I have experimented with plain glass in a cobbled together carrier for a lpl machine in the past, that that worked without any newtons rings. But if there is an affordable source to this material I'd like to try it in the near future.
     
  18. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    I'm pretty sure it is the emulsion side, I have AN glass on top.
     
  19. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

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    I'm very interested in this as well. With a point source enlarger the texture from the AN top glass is very apparent. I also get newton rings from the clear glass with some color films and TMX. I've tried using AN glass top and bottom, but I can see distortion from the bottom AN glass.
     
  20. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    Have you tried wiping down the bottom glass with some alcohol before putting the negative in? This seems to work for me as well as coated glass (ie it might sort of work sometimes :laugh:). Another trick that works above the negative (I actually came up with this one) and might work below the negative in a pinch (testing required) is a piece of unexposed, fixed Tri-X 320 sandwiched in between the glass and negative. That film has just enough tooth on both sides to prevent the dreaded rings. Etc.
     
  21. Erik L

    Erik L Subscriber

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    Maybe I'm lucky or you are cursed:smile: as a last ditch effort if you can't eliminate the problem you can fluid mount the negs. I've done this to negatives that were in bad shape with scratches and dust I couldn't remove and it was a big improvement and it would eliminate your newtons rings I would think. I used kami fluid as well as naphtha for the fluid, Mylar on top and sealed with tape. The sandwich lasted all day and didn't dry out even with 1000 watts of hot halogen lights blazing on it:smile:
     
  22. Oren Grad

    Oren Grad Subscriber

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    I went through a phase of experimenting with Denglas (no longer made) and Tru Vue AR, mostly for contact printing applications. I got them from a local high-end frame shop which, up to a point, was willing to cut pieces to size for me. I say up to a point, because it was apparent that they began to think of it as a nuisance after a while. Part of the problem was that it was sometimes difficult to find pieces that were sufficiently blemish-free for my purposes, and they understandably weren't willing to keep sorting and searching their stock of expensive, fragile museum glass for a purpose that was unrelated to their business.

    That said, if you can get a clean piece of AR-coated glass in the size you need, I do think it's worth a try for a carrier bottom glass.
     
  23. Rafal Lukawiecki

    Rafal Lukawiecki Subscriber

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    Above, Michael.
     
  24. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    I am definitely going to continue to pursue the other glass types, I don't care what it costs at this point either, it is wrecking havoc on my production which is far more costly overall than the price of glass.

    Like I said, 4x5 TMX and TMY is less of an issue at the moment because it stays oh-so flat in my glassless carrier. But in 120 that and Acros is another story.

    Frankly I am surprised this does not come up more, I can't sell prints with damned newton rings on them....