Sow's Ear

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by jjstafford, Jul 19, 2005.

  1. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    Vegans might want to skip out now.

    The saying is "You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear", but I'll place a gentleman's bet that Kodak makes it's gelatin from exactly that. Takers?
     
  2. c6h6o3

    c6h6o3 Member

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    At least during my lifetime, Eastman Kodak has been (and I believe still is) the world's largest purchaser of cow bones. They use them to make gelatin.

    As to porcine bones, I have no idea. What's your point?
     
  3. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Can you make a silk purse out of a Wratten #51 filter?
     
  4. bobfowler

    bobfowler Subscriber

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    No, you need a #47 and a #58.
     
  5. Gay Larson

    Gay Larson Member

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    If it bothers you, don't eat any jello
     
  6. bobfowler

    bobfowler Subscriber

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    "There's always room for Jello" :smile:

    hehehe
     
  7. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

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    I will take that bet at even odds for $3.00.
     
  8. bobfowler

    bobfowler Subscriber

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    A rather interesting (albeit somewhat disgusting) read.
     
  9. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    I owe Claire $3.

    Would you accept payment as Nelson, Wisconsin ice cream?
     
  10. Bighead

    Bighead Member

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    No wonder I get hate mail from PETA once or twice a year.... They've seen how much film I go through.....
     
  11. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

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    Absolutely. However, I want to eat it in person. One cone for me...one cone for you. I will tell you when.
     
  12. c6h6o3

    c6h6o3 Member

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    The unannounced change in grade 2 Azo a few years back (longer development times, less contrast) was due to the change in the gelatin formula forced upon Kodak by the change in the quality of the cow bones. Hideous though it is to think about, it's essential to the process of making both film and paper.
     
  13. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    In two words, beef bones is correct. Pork is also used.
    I found a wealth of gelatin information via the WWW.
    Seems it also goes very well with ink jet papers. Dan
     
  14. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

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    I'll bet a lot of those folks eat Jello and don't realize where it comes from.
     
  15. fparnold

    fparnold Member

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    Maybe, but seeing the number of questionable alternatives being pushed, I think they're becoming aware.

    More seriously, If they could use nitrocellulose in the old days, isn't there a modern synthetic polymer that could be used instead? Is this a matter of inertia, i.e. they figure they'll be out of film before they'd recoup the costs of reengineering their emulsions to use the alternative, or that the organic functionalities in gelatin are currently too hard to reproduce on that scale for consistent quality?
     
  16. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    It's a deal! Just as soon as I get the car running again. It's been stored for thee years. :smile:
     
  17. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

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    As long as your buying I will drive.
     
  18. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

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    Mmmmmm... Sows Ear flavored Jell-O [drool]
     
  19. fschifano

    fschifano Member

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    Nitrocellulose was used for the support in the old days. The gelatin silver suspension (it's not really an emulsion even though we call it that) was coated onto that. Today we use different and more stable plastics for the support, but the gelatin silver light sensitive layer is still with us.
     
  20. magic823

    magic823 Member

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    Actually gelatine is a pretty amazing protein. There really isn't anything like it for photography. There is a whole chapter about it in Haist's "Modern Photographic Processing".
     
  21. fparnold

    fparnold Member

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    Ach! Thanks for the correction (never post too late in the day). I had the emulsion and the base confused. I'll have to go read that chapter.

    The question, however, does remain; isn't there something other than gelatin that could be made consistently? I suppose with the current fear of cholesterol, having EK corner the world market on Egg White isn't going to be a real option.
     
  22. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    Is it not a moot point? Kodak is going out of business, and so demand in the USA for the particular gelatin will plummet, the suppliers will probably go under as another obsolete industry.
     
  23. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    I'm sure the market for gelatin will increase. It is a sizing
    ingredient. Firms are competing for the sized ink jet paper
    market. Perhaps Kodak's gelatin facility will thrive. Dan
     
  24. Donald Qualls

    Donald Qualls Member

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    And don't forget that the vast bulk of gelatin production is still for food -- it's not just used in gelatin desserts, there's gelatin in lots of candies and other food products.

    Gelatin was readily available (as hide glue) when gelatin emulsions were invented. It'll be available (as fingernail strenghtening supplements and desserts, if nothing else) when we have to make our own glass plates.
     
  25. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I've made my own aspic from scratch and I sometimes make my own beef and chicken stock, so gelatin isn't that hard to come by. I figure anything they could make in the nineteenth century shouldn't be impossible to make in my kitchen.